Attorney General Asks KnowThyNeighbor.org to Assist With Fraud; Assigns Civil Investigator

Manchester-by-the-Sea, October 3, 2005 - Massachusetts Assistant Attorney General Peter Sacks contacted KnowThyNeighbor.org today for assistance with fraud reporting related to signature collection for the initiative petition to end same-sex marriage.

All allegations of fraud must now be directed to a newly appointed Civil Investigator, Nicholas Paras. Mr. Paras will be scrutinizing the reports of bait-and-switch and other improprieties that have been streaming in to the AG's office through KnowThyNeighbor.org and other sources.

Peter Sacks has instructed KnowThyNeighbor.org to make the investigator's information available on its website as soon as possible and to provide the following information to all Massachusetts voters who believe that they have signed this petition in error (either due to fraud or mistake):

1. Immediately contact your Local Town/City Clerk or Registrar. You will have to appear in person with the proper identification. This must be the clerk for the town in which you are a registered voter.
2. Request that your name be removed from the petition. Document your request and ask if the actual petition that you signed has yet been presented to the Town Clerk. The timing of this request MUST be as near the time of signing as possible as the Town/City Clerk needs to stop the signed copy before it is verified and entered on the log. Attorney Sacks explained that the Town/City Clerks should understand this responsibility.
3. Document everything, including the reason why you believe that your name should be removed, whether or not your City/Town Clerk was able to delete your name, and if your City/Town Clerk was helpful or not responsive.  Copy this information for yourself and send documentation to:
   
   Nicholas Paras, Civil Investigator
   Attorney General's Office
   McCormack Building
   One Ashburton Place
   Boston, MA 02108
   (617) 727-2200 x2883
   nicholas.paras@ago.state.ma.us

Please all take note of this and continue to report any and all cases of fraud.  KnowThyNeighbor.org remains committed to assisting the public in its understanding of the initiative petition process.  KnowThyNeighbor.org applauds the Attorney General for assigning a Civil Investigator in respect to these very serious reports which are surfacing across our Commonwealth.  We will continue to assist his office as directed.

Tom Lang, Director

Comments

[LazyEights]

Thanks for the heads up.

Lazy

[Joe S]

Now if we can only get the IRS to investigate the SEVERAL 501(3)(c) violations against the Catholic Church and other Christian churches that went beyond the scope of their boundries by providing "signing stations" and handing out petitions in church.

When will someone be investigating these churches?

[Miss P.]

I and thousands of others agree with you, Joe S. I'm hoppin' mad that these religious organizations are getting away with breaking the law, and I'm going to let my state senator, state rep, Congressman, and Senator know. I suggest those of you who share my sentiments do the same, and if you're not sure who your legislators are, go here: http://www.massequality.org/action/index.html

Here's the pertinent section of IRS code:

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=120703,00.html

Political and Lobbying Activities

(Adapted from IRS Publication 1828, Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations - February 2004)

Lobbying Activity

In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.

Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.

An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.

Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.

[Marc Johnson]

I've forwarded a copy of this to Target headquarters in Minneapolis. TARGET FORBIDS ANY KIND OF SOLICITATIONS ON THEIR PROPERTY. Period.

We visited Oregon back in 1997 - at the height of their discriminatory ballot initiative. We stopped by a Target store in Klackamas, where a couple of people soliciting signatures were posted at the front entrance. Not only were they soliciting signatures, but they were holding a couple of VERY offensive signs/posters (save our children, etc.).

After notifying the store manager, they were immediately ejected off of Target property, and we received a letter from Target HQ explaining their no solicitation policy and apologizing for the incident.

[Mjant45]

Stop and Shop also has the same policy of not allowing political solicitations. If this happens, you should report it immediately to the store manager and remind them of their corporate policy.

[Joe S]

BIG Y Supermarkets has the same "No Soliciting" policy...

if you see the petitioners...see the manager IMMEDIATELY...they will be removed.

[Miss P.]

I called Shaw's and explained my encounter with a guy from Nebraska who was hawking a "buy wine in supermarkets" petition and denied having the "I hate queers" petition, which I found half-way throught the stack of wine petitions on the same clip board.

Their policy is this: They have an open solicitation policy and allow solicitation for petitions. The person to whom I spoke said petitioners "have a legal right under the law" to be there.

In fact, Shaw's supports the wine petition and is affiliated with a petitioning firm to get signatures. However, she was not pleased to hear that this person had mixed in the anti-gay petition and asked me to get his name so they could take action if he's being less than truthful, etc.

On issues like gay marriage, she said, they remain neutral as they serve a diverse population.

I told her that guy from Nebraska--who I knew didn't come all that way because of wine--made me so angry that I thought my blood would burst through my veins, and that I would just avoid the Shaw's in my town until I knew he was gone, because I'm afraid I might punch him in the head if I see him again. That's when she asked me to get his name and let them know about him so they could take action if he was being obscure/deceitful.

[FranG]

Has anyone asked these people who told them to collect marriage signatures when they were hired to collect wine signatures? Was it their boss? Did he/she have contact with the marriage petition organizers? Or did someone just walk up to them and ask them to collect signatures for this too? Is the civil investigator looking in to who was behind this fraud or are we just going to beleive that they acted independently because they believed in the anti-gay marriage cause?

[Deb]

There was a gentleman asking for signatures on a petition to sell beer and wine outside Oakdale Plaza on the Tewksbury-Lowell line today. If you signed the petition he then asked you to sign a second petition....turns out the 2nd petition was the marriage petition.

[Tom Lang]

FranG

I don't participate in the blogs as much as I should as I am usually on the telephone trying to make things happen here at KnowThyNeighbor, but your email needs to be answered. The AG's Civil Investigator knows about all the circumstances regarding the fraud.

There were two out-of-state companies hired to collect signatures. The Massachusetts Food Association hired one to collect for the beer/wine petition and our foes hired the other company. From what we can see, we believe that both of these petition companies draw from the same "labor" pool and outsourced or sub-contracted labor. Therefore, in my opinion, the two companies were either directly or indirectly working together.

Now since it seems, as you point out, that the "technique" of signature collection with the two petitions being worked together is consistent across the state, one might deduce that a "single order" was given. I do not believe for one minute that any of these signature collectors acted on their own accord without clear explanations of techniques, what to say, how to fraud, etc. And that they were well instructed. The emails that KTN.org has received from all over the state plus our own personal field observations are too consistent. But that is only my "opinion."

Tom Lang, Director

[karen]

there was a guy out at the market basket on the Dracut/Lowell line sunday.
he asked if i would sign the petition to sell beer and wine i ask if he was from around here he said no he was from California and was getting a dollar a signature.

[John Hosty]

Organised religion. You will never find a more retched hive of scum and vilinny. They live without a conciense and act with no honor.

[Tyler]

John -

You wrote:
Organised religion. You will never find a more retched hive of scum and vilinny. They live without a conciense and act with no honor.

Let me point out a few things.

Organized religion ended slavery. Organized religion may be perceived to have started slavery as well, but good Christians ended it.

Organized religion feeds millions of hungry around the world.

Organized religion has housed and fed many of the evacuees of New Orleans.

Organized (Christian) religion threw countless resources into the tsunami devasted, primarily muslim, countries.

So...ummm...what's so bad about organized religion anyway?

[Reuben]

I'm glad to hear the KTN.org is making such an impact on the community there. And I'm extremely pleased to hear that the AG's office appointed a civil investigator. You're making great headway. Thanks to you AND to everyone involved. You guys (and girls) are an inspiration!

[mark snyder]

Thank you for joining us (queertoday.com) in great numbers in bringing back the activism in the queer community! We were starting to feel lonely!

[John Hosty]

Tyler, ever hear of the crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, or the Salem Witch Trials to name a few? How about ethnic cleansing, and jihad? "And the Lord said 'I give you religion.' And the devil said, "Hey, let me organize it for you." It is discusting how the church is trying to diflect the attention off their own polititcal fire storm by giving the masses something else to look at. "Here ya go, over here see. Good boy."

[Cherie Johnson]

Perhaps all the gay and lesbian organizations should come together and speak with one voice to let the nation know that we aren't going to take anymore of the dung slung from the "moral majority" anymore.
It really is time to stand up and get out of the "this don't affect me" attitude, and come out of the closet. All the "mainstream" gay folk...those who still live in fear, it is time to rise up and be heard.
I saw this website on the KTN blog and looked at their site. I think a demonstration to protest Focus on the Family is a great idea and I would hope that everyone who is able and willing would go.
I think what KTN has done is incredible, but I also think that if MassEquality, HRC, Queer Today, PFLAG,KTN and all the other groups came together and fought this together, we would gain ground. I honestly think that one group here or there holding a protest won't have as great of an impact as having multiple group gatherings. There is obviously power in numbers, look at the religious groups...very well funded and organized. They all came together.
Rise up brothers and sisters, and stand together as one.

http://www.queertoday.com/

October 29th, 2005 Demonstration Schedule

7:30AM: 88 Tremont Street LGBTQ.. & Allies Large-Scale Protest against anti-gay conference by Focus On The Family. The "Love Won Out" Conference teaches participants to "cure" and "prevent" homosexuality. Their messages and attitudes are especially dangerous to queer youth who are around 4 times more likely to attempt suicide.

12PM: We'll join the Anti-war Rally at the Boston Common. QueerToday.com will help inform & invite the marchers to protest at the "Love Won Out" Conference.

1PM: We'll return to 88 Tremont Street and prepare to welcome thousands of anti-war protesters who will join our demonstration against Focus On The Family. Love Won Out? SHUT IT DOWN!

[Joe S]

Cherie

Sounds great! I encourage EVERYONE TO GO!

[jeff]

John Hosty

I see your concerns with organized religion, the Church has had serious failures and serious advances in its movement--
But those of us who are trying to follow the way of Christ do not always agree on the same responses and actions--
At the end of the day we have to deal with trying to live like Jesus, with compassion, mercy, and hope--

[keith]

actually, it was the same kind of 'organized religion', which we are up against today, that jesus was preaching against. it's not a spiritual entity, it's a political one masquerading as such, preying on people's fears and prejudices in order to disperse their own vitriol, to yoke people to their brand of 'reality as it should be.' it's not organised religion that is the evil, it is the people who cloak themselves in it, using it to their own evil ends. they no nothing of jesus or of god.

[Tyler]

John Hosty -

There was a time when I thought you should change your title to "John Hostile", then there was a time when I thought you were starting to act more reasonably, so I developed a different perception of you, and now, you are back to being John Hostile again.

Ethnic Cleansing and Jihad are the result of:

1) Atheism. Hitler was an atheist.

2) Fundamental Islam (which, I might add, is EXTREMELY intolerant of homosexuality).

Perhaps I should have clarified my definition of "organized religion" to "developed relationship". Christianity is the only "religion" that is not a religion at all - it's a personal relationship with the God of Creation through His Son Jesus Christ. Waaaaaaaaay different than trying to "earn" one's own entry into heaven.

But...hey, if you need to define things in such a way that it justifies all your anger towards what does not exist, that's cool. I just needed to point that out to those that are still trying to figure it out, not those that have already put religion into a box and defined that box as, what was the term? "retched hive of scum and vilinny (sic)" Your words...

It's really evident here, and not worth wasting my time, that all of the anger, hatred, and blindness is held by those who want to redefine society, not those that wish to protect the bedrock for future generations.

To quote the Bible, as so many like to do (out of context, I might add), "Whatsoever a man sows he will also reap."

We are in the throes of the most rapid decent in morality in the history of the world, and we're living in a time where one's morals are purely relative, based on the subjective evidence of their individual experiences (or desires) rather than the objective truth of the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

Blessings!

[John Hosty]

Jeff there are many many good people that are Christians and that is what I count on. Remember it is a sin to watch harm come to someone while you do nothing. The very existence of this petition is a harm of its own as it shows such a low level of respect that it in-and-of-itself is a vessel of bigotry. My prayer is that good people will start to think on their own and say to themselves, "Why do we need to take away gay marriage, I just don't see anything bad happening that makes for a need to end it." For those of you who would stand in arguement with the rabid masses of anti-gay religious zealots, my hat is if off to you. You will take your place in history and your families will be proud. Those who live by hate know where they are going and can take a seat next to Strom Thermon and Gov. Wallace at the back of the bus that goes there.

[John Hosty]

Tyler, You really need to be more informed in your points before you make them. As each mistake is caught it draws away from your credibility and lessons your arguement's value. Ethinc cleansing in former Yugoslavia was between two warring religious viewpoints, Christian and Muslim, not atheism. And make no mistake, when Al-Qieda comes back to town there are not going to care if you are straight or gay, they are just going to kill as many Christians as they can. You use a lot of unqualified pronouns and don't have a lot to say about the actual subject, which is "why does gay marriage have to end?" Oh, and by the way. I was one of the youth leaders that went to Denver Colorado to see Pope John Paul II in August of 1993 from St' Joseph's you groug in Salem, N.H. So I really do think I am quite well informed as to how religion works, more so than you.

[FranG]

Thanks for the clarification, Tom. I am not a conspiracy kind of person, but its so freaky that the Mass Food Association director's name is Flynn. hahaha. With your explanation, though, it seems to me that this was probably more a greedy businessman than our foes trying to dupe people. I mean you are who you associate with, but I would hope that the anti-marriage petition leaders will follow the lead of the Food association and reject these signatures and distance themselves from this 'business' person.

[John Hosty]

7:30AM: 88 Tremont Street LGBTQ.. & Allies Large-Scale Protest against anti-gay conference by Focus On The Family. The "Love Won Out" Conference teaches participants to "cure" and "prevent" homosexuality. Their messages and attitudes are especially dangerous to queer youth who are around 4 times more likely to attempt suicide.

[Tyler]

John -

You missed the whole difference between relationship and religion, didn't you?

I'll be blunt...are you religious, or do you have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ?

The ethnic cleansing I was referring to (which was right) was about Hitler in Germany. I think I stated that clearly enough, didn't I?

So in the ethnic cleansing that YOU talked about, who was on the side of killing the most people? Was it the Christians, or the Muslims?

Are you all going to the Love Won Out conference to find out what it's really about, or are you going with your assumptions to protest that which you know very little about? I would personally like to see any of you pay for and attend the conference with an open mind...which you clearly all have...and then see what you think about it.

If you just want to stand outside and foment hatred towards an unknown entity...well, what can I say? That's what most protesters do anyway.

Baaaaa!

[John Hosty]

1. My religious beliefs are my own and I don't have to defend them to you or anyone else because you are not effected by what I beleive.
2. It was the Christians that did most of the killing in Bosnia, that's why it was such a big deal when Clinton went in and stopped it. It showed the world that SOME christians aren't war crazed and can actually be reasoned with.
3. Yes, I will be outside in a peaceful show that good people don't have to listen to hate and don't have to fear letting their own voice be heard.
It should be enough that you have your freedom, you don't need to take away someone else's, unless you can prove that need I say "Baaaaa" back to you.

[Tyler]

It's actually funny when you don't get it.

Baaaaa refers to sheep. Protesters just doing what protesters do...are sheep.

I can only hope that your protest would be peaceful, and I will be there...maybe we'll meet and have a good conversation about faith?

By the way...effected...affected...there is a difference. I am not AFFECTED by what you believe...right...but if you're going to change the culture that my daughter is going to be raised in, that's where I commit myself to the cause and rightly defend the sanctity of marriage. And yes, of course, marriage is a sacred institution. You talk of your catholicism and being there to see JPII in Denver, and you should have learned that in your studies.

[John Hosty]

And by the way Tyler, I know you are another professinal plant. I have read and tracked All your other postings on all the other like websites. You are not hear to learn anything, only to sow the seeds of hatred. Keep going, we will see who ends up where in the end.

[FranG]

For those not familiar with 'Love Won Out', here is a report of their last conference posted on the afa.net website. The misinformation in this article alone warrants protest. Who listens to any Heche about anything?

Love Won Out Tackles Homosexual Issues With Information, Compassion, Biblical Truth

By Jenni Parker
September 28, 2005

(AgapePress) - Earlier this month, Focus on the Family brought its international Love Won Out conference to Birmingham, Alabama, for a one-day gathering designed to educate and equip participants to wrestle with key issues surrounding homosexuality and to offer hope for those struggling with unwanted same-sex attractions. Speakers included experts on homosexual issues straight from the front lines of the culture wars as well as former gays and lesbians whose personal testimonies affirmed the possibility of freedom in Christ.

One of the featured speakers at the Birmingham LWO Conference was former lesbian Melissa Fryrear, a gender issues analyst for Focus on the Family. She says even though homosexuality and same-sex marriage are becoming increasingly politicized in contemporary culture, the conference focuses on love and hope in Christ. “We are here to offer a perspective that is rarely heard anywhere else,” she says. “There is a way out of unwanted homosexuality.”

Fryrear presented two separate breakout sessions, entitled “Someone I Love is Gay” and “Questions & Answers on Lesbianism.” In them, she balanced factual information, scriptural truth, and personally vulnerable sharing of her own path out of homosexuality, along the way providing penetrating insights into homosexuality from a female perspective.

“I never met a person who aspired to be homosexually challenged,” the gender issues expert noted at one point. “Sexual trauma is a huge piece of the puzzle. Having talked with hundreds of homosexuals, I have never met one that had not been sexually violated in his or her life.”

Other speakers helped supply further pieces of the puzzle. Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, president and principal researcher for the National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) presented a talk on “The Condition of Male Homosexuality” and another on “Prevention of Male Homosexuality.” And Exodus International's Randy Thomas presented “Hope for Those Who Struggle” and a two-part session called “Reaching the Homosexual.”

Also, guest speaker Nancy Heche shared the lessons of faith and forgiveness she learned during her celebrity daughter's high profile lesbian relationship, and even before that, when she lost her husband to AIDS after discovering he had secretly lived a homosexual lifestyle during their marriage. Later, Heche also presented a session called “Three Things to Say When You Don't Know What to Say.”

A number of featured speakers focused on combating the homosexual agenda, aptly distinguishing between issues of personal homosexuality and the aggressive assault of homosexual activism. These speakers presented information designed to help Christians in all walks of life combat the homosexual agenda's increasing encroachments into virtually every area of contemporary culture.

For instance, teacher, principal and public policy analyst Dick Carpenter presented “Why is What They're Teaching So Dangerous?” and “Teaching Captivity? Addressing the Pro-Gay Agenda in Your School.” And Focus on the Family's psychologist in residence, Dr. Bill Maier, put the same-sex marriage debate in context with “Straight Thinking on Gay Marriage.”

A Challenge for the Church

Another LWO conference speaker, former homosexual and former Exodus International president Joe Dallas, is the author of three books on homosexuality, including Desires in Conflict and the recently released When Homosexuality Hits Home. At the Birmingham LWO conference, he presented “Responding to Pro-Gay Theology, a brief analysis of several of the so-called biblical arguments presented in defense of homosexuality.”

Also, in his wrap-up remarks at the end of the conference, Dalls addressed the question, “How Should We Respond. His closing observations offered Christians a multifaceted challenge - to be understanding and loving towards homosexuals, to confront gay activists misinformation with truth, and to be biblical, bold, and unwaveringly vocal in the face of the homosexual agenda.

Dallas points out that homosexual activists' agenda is not only to normalize the homosexual lifestyle, but also to silence all those who oppose that normalization. This will to silence all opposition is what he calls “the most frightening aspect of the gay rights movement.” And that is why he says each Christian, more than ever, needs to be an unsparing voice in the debate -- “unsparing in your compassion and unsparing in your conviction.”

Also, the author asserts, the church needs to “repent of being intimidated by the gay rights movement and recommit itself to its prophetic role.” He says if Christians, who are “the conscience of the state,” allow themselves to be intimidated into silence, then “the state has no choice but to become a sociopathic state.”

And if the church allows that sociopathic, homosexuality-affirming culture's increasing self-destructiveness to proceed unchallenged to its logical, morbid conclusions, Dallas contends, “God will require the blood of the state at the hands of his visible representation, who allowed itself to be intimidated into silence.”

Focus on the Family's next Love Won Out conference is scheduled for Oct. 29 in Boston, Mass. Those seeking more information are encouraged to visit the Love Won Out website (www.lovewonout.com) for more information.

© 2005 AgapePress all rights reserved.

[John Hosty]

Tyler must be busy making his rounds at one of the other websites like queertoday.org, where he posts as tyler and annonymous. Didn't think anyone would catch you huh Tyler? As your arguements grow weaker your vehimence grows stronger. A strong indication of who's side is right in this issue. Keep posting, i am not going anywhere...

God bless you too

[CPT_Doom]

Also, guest speaker Nancy Heche shared the lessons of faith and forgiveness she learned during her celebrity daughter's high profile lesbian relationship

Just an FYI - Anne Heche has condemned and repudiated her mother's affiliation with FOF and this inane "conference."

Also and FYI for Tyler - there has never been a scientifically documented case of sexual orientation change (either from straight to gay or gay to straight) in the history of humanity. There are, and always will be, people who, for religious or social reasons, choose to live celibate lives, but that does not mean they have changed their fundamental orientation.

You also mentioned the "sanctity" of marriage. Yet, as I have mentioned, the Catholic Church in which I was raised does not recognize the "marriages" solemnized in "churches" that refute the one, true faith. Anyone who refers to a "personal relationship" with Jesus is not a Christian - they belong to the cult of personality that has arisen around the rabbi Jesus of Nazareth and cannot be considered a valid religion. Therefore, anyone "married" in such a church is in fact living in an adulterous, sinful relationship. At least that's what the nuns taught me to believe, even though it meant believing my own Grandparents (Congregationalist) and uncle&aunt (Southern Baptist) were not validly married.

That is the problem with confusing certain religions' views of marriage with the legal, civil contract that the Commonwealth recently opened to all humans, regardless of their perceived gender. You end up in a religious war, and we have seen too many of those in this country.

Certainly in a state like Massachusetts, with a majority Catholic population, I would not be encouraging any religious definitions of marriage - those who are divorced and remarried or who were never married in the Catholic church could find themselves without a valid legal relationship.

[Cherie Johnson]

I have sat and read all the posts going round and round between JH and Tyler and I agree that Tyler is most likely a plant from one of those "God fearing" groups. We must understand that Tyler and those just like him cannot help themselves.It is clear that these religious fanatics cannot possibly fathom the depth of this situation. Their leaders tell them it's an abomination and mislead them to quotes in the bible that could be interpreted differently. They see what they want to see. They tune into Fox and so they don't have to hear or see just what people like them have done to this country. They have very thick rose colored glasses on and believe with their soul that those that don't accept Christ as their personal savior will go to hell.
They do not have the capacity to see the world as it is. They don't have the capacity to love without conditions. They don't have the capacity to understand that there is more than just their religion in this world. They don't have the capacity to realize that not every country wants democracy.
They do have the capacity to push your buttons by circling the issue and not coming up with any definitive answers to anything. They just know that gay marriage is wrong and try and throw a few bible quotes at you for intimidation purposes.
Don't let the Tyler's of this world push your buttons. That is their goal to get us upset and angry. Don't give him/her the satisfaction. Ignore...Ignore...Ignore. Does he really have anything worthwhile to say anyway? No...not that I have seen.
John... I hope our paths cross on Sat as there should be more people like you on this earth.

[Tyler]

Wow...I'm a plant? Really...I thought I was more of a human...although once upon a time, in my college days, I would venture into the "vegetable" state.

Just because I posted a few comments on QueerToday that makes me a plant? I know Marc, I've talked to him in front of the Tremont Temple Baptist Church, and we've had a few good conversations since. I don't know what about me being on multiple sites makes me a "plant". Cool! Maybe I'll start growing really tall, then I could graduate to "basketball player" or even something better!

All joking aside, CPT_Doom you are 100% WRONG that no one has ever changed their sexuality. Making such a broad statement as that just to justify your position on the matter is just downright foolishness. Tsk, tsk, you should know better!

[John Hosty]

Tyler, you are either someone who is not interested in hearing another point of view or you are here for the attention you have been given. Either way I am no longer going to address what you say. I will continue to talk with those who have a chance of changing their heart and doing what's best for our society. Holding on to old ways is not healthy, that's been proven. Your arguement grows weaker and weaker. People need change, and change is healthy. People evolve as a society not just through genetics, but through social developement. We are now at a stage where we understand that, although we may not find homosexuality attractive, they represent no harm to society or we would not have drawn them in closer as we have in the past five years. In fact they seem to be a benefit. Case and point look at the heterosexual's use of the word metrosexual. A 21st century man. In touch with his feminine side but fully embraces his masculine side too. The best of both worlds. He is not afriad to follow his own path for he is his own man. If he is good at cooking he embraces it rather than being embarrassed by it. Men are not gay because of what they like, only who they like. Same applies for the ladies. They are more free to do as they choose without feeling funny about it. That benefit was given to you by the homosexual community. Contributions that you would know are the likes of Michaelangelo, Alexander the great, Leonardo Da Vinci, Walt Wittman. During 9/11 when the rebelion against the terrorists aboard one of the four hijacked planes crash landed into Pennsylvania instead of it's intended target, which was believed to be the White House, They were led by a gay man that said, "Let's roll!"

[Jonas Green]

I'm familiar with the Danvers Target where that photo was taken. Personally if I ran into him I'd lead him on. -- Let him start with how Gay people choose to be gay, and shoot back with those Black people choose to be free.

[Danny]

I went into Sandwich Stop & Shop today and saw a petitioner. I spoke to him briefly and asked him a few questions. He stated that he was told by his superior that he is not allowed to have the marriage petition inside supermarkets. He also stated that if he was reported for having it in a supermarket he could get fired and sent home. However, at other locations (home depot was his example) he said he could collect signatures for the marriage petition.

He then stated that he wasn't too into that petition and had only collected approx. 30 signatures for that petition and mostly from people who asked him directly if they could sign that petition.

[Tyler]

You can completely ignore this post, but I hope that the others who are tuned in will read it and take it to heart.

Yours is a campaign of misinformation...Todd Beamer said "Let's Roll." Todd was a committed Christian who was married to Lisa Beamer. They were members of the Christian and Missionary Alliance (which I used to attend...and it has a stance against homosexual marriage). If you don't believe me, check this link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0842373195/103-7307757-0186200?v=glance

No need to apologize, though...for taking credit for something a great Christian man did and saying that it was a "gay" man.

If Todd was any form of gay, he was extremely happy to be a Christian and have a wonderful wife and wonderful children.

Blessings!

[Tyler]

Where is Aaron now? This was posted on another thread:

>>>>START MODERATOR 10/4/05<<<<

THE KTN BLOG WAS CREATED AS A FORUM FOR **RESPECTFUL** DISCOURSE.

NAME CALLING AND PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE UNACCEPTABLE AND ARE GROUNDS FOR LOSING COMMENTING PRIVILEGES.

THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES TO ENGAGE IN THOUGHTFUL DIALOGUE. LET'S NOT WASTE THE OPPORTUNITY!

CONTACT: moderator@knowthyneighbor.org

>>>>END MODERATOR<<<<

Posted on another thread...wish you would come to bat for me here, amigo!

[Paul Jamieson]

John,

True the gay community has given the world a wonderful array of artists, philosophers, politicians, etc. I will not deny that.

But, Metrosexual is a term that is laughed at by any man who knows how to take care of himself, and doesn't need a gay man to show him how to do it. That's why we have wives!
Queer eye is cheap comedy at best.

This website and the petition are a direct result of the activism of the gay community. When you say

"People need change, and change is healthy. People evolve as a society not just through genetics, but through social developement. We are now at a stage where we understand that, although we may not find homosexuality attractive, they represent no harm to society or we would not have drawn them in closer as we have in the past five years"

I find this to be a seriously flawed argument on account of the many people across this country who have decided that they do NOT want to be "drawn in closer" to the gay lifestyle, and are going out of their way to stand up for what they believe in.

Just because we have Hollywood and the Fashion industry embracing homosexuality, doesn't mean the whole country is on board.

[Tom Lang]

Paul,

I would consider Michaelangelo and Leonardo DaVinci just a little bit more than "artists." There were three men who pulled Western Civilization out of the Dark Ages and TWO of them happened to be gay!

Regarding your points about this country embracing the gay community, personally I don't care if you or anyone likes me. Really! But what I do care about is the fact that as a tax payer, I demand equal rights in my home state and when I cross the border into others. From a personal standpoint and what this website is all about, is that I/we are asking those who don't think that gay people deserve equality to stand up and identify themselves. It's as simple as that. Then I can determine if I want to live near you, if I want to allow my family to have contact with you, and if I want to continue to put food in your mouth.

I don't know if you are aware of this but the gay community is responsible for $ 500 billion dollars of spending each year in the United States, surpassing the African American and the Hispanic communities. I for one have vowed to see that not one dollar of that spending goes to any person, organization or business that does not consider me an equal.

Tom Lang

[Alex]

Tyler,

John probably made an honest mistake and was referring not to Todd Beamer, but Mark Bingham, another passenger on the flight who was openly gay. The quote "Let's role" has been attributed to Todd Beamer, as you correctly stated, but Mark Bingham has also been heralded for his bravery.

What's with your vicious attack on John? Why all the hatred? He simply confused the names of the passengers.

[Tyler]

Hi, Alex -

It's not hatred...it's just that if he's going to make a serious mistake like that, he should give credit where credit is due - it was an evangelical Christian that said that! And, since he's so bent on painting evangelical Christians as the enemy, I thought it was prudent to inform him that we most certainly are not the enemy.

Blessings!

ps why hasn't anyone ONCE characterized his attack on me as hatred? Is there some sort of...what's that...ummm...BIAS going on here?

[Joe S]

Poor Tyler...so persecuted...so misunderstood....

How does it feel?

Now try a little empathy....and maybe someone will have some for you!

[Paul Jamieson]

Tom,

"From a personal standpoint and what this website is all about, is that I/we are asking those who don't think that gay people deserve equality to stand up and identify themselves. It's as simple as that. Then I can determine if I want to live near you, if I want to allow my family to have contact with you, and if I want to continue to put food in your mouth."

People that sign this petition do not believe in same-sex marriage. Many of them may, however, believe in civil unions and protections for gay couples.

Your equality argument goes like this - one man + one woman should = one man + one man. A lot of people simply do not believe it, and want a chance to say so.

This is not some vast conspiracy that brought this about, rather the religions that most people base their lives on.

And, I don't deny you the demographics and the money argument, but I don't think that people are that shallow when it comes to their belief system.

I don't need to see your name on a website to know that I wouldn't want to buy a home in P-Town.

[John Hosty]

Paul, You cound have probably done without, Michaelangelo, Da Vinci, Alexander the Great, Billy Jean King, Or may the gay guy on the one flight during 9/11 that missed it's target due to his famuos rebelion, "Let's roll!" This is a very short list of why you shouldn't be so narrow minded. I will remind you this is supposed to be about marriage, but everyone's arguement seems to spill out into civil rights; the real agenda.

[Tyler]

John -

Todd Beamer said "Let's Roll." His wife, Lisa Beamer, even wrote a book with that title. Or did you just ignore that little tidbit I put up there?

Once again, yours is a campaign of misinformation. Have you ever heard of Baghdad Bob?

[Greg]

i think the whole petiton should be thrown out because of this. start with a new petition. i saw one of the men getting signatures out side of my work and when i found out about this i was mad. the attorney general should just throw out the whole petition

[John Hosty]

God brings us love, man brings us dogma. Who do we follow?

[chipmunk220]

“…as no man can be sure that he may not be tomorrow the victim of a spirit of injustice, by which he may be a gainer to-day." ALEXANDER HAMILTON FEDERALIST PAPER #78
THOSE WHO SIGN THE ANTI-MARRIAGE PETITION BEST THINK TWICE BEFORE THEY DO.
The judges in Massachusetts were not "activist" judges looking for "social experiments"...they were judges looking to defend this Commonwealth's Constitution.

[A&R S]

The photograph of an African American petition worker in a bait and switch reality has the sufficient lack of information to become a willing pawn in the neocon scheme.

Many AA preachers have been bribed with federal monies for their pet projects under the "Faith Based Initiative" programmes. Follow the Money in politics !!!!

Too many activists actually engage in conversation about our rights as if our opponents actually have a real stake in the outcome for ourselves and the children whom we raise. Bullocks !! Like all hot-button issues- the fact that many millions of dollars are received by the "sheeple" - make these issues a marketable commodity. The last outcome they want is a final solution. Greed makes them perpetual warriors - since the term: " the war on ....(name your neocon moneymaker) " is the mantra of the generation.

[Bill]

Wow! I came to this sight looking for an update on the petition, and didn't expect to find this blog!
I have been with my partner for 6 years, and we married in July of 2004. Most of our friends are straight married people. One day, a couple told us that their marriage had been a "little shakey" lately, but after having witnessed our dedication to each other, and how much the marriage issue meant to us, it brought new life to their own marriage. They renewed their vows recently, and we stood up for them!
So tell me again, how do gay people threaten marriage? You can say all you want theoretically, but in real life... arguments against gay marriage just don't hold up alot for us any more. We are all part of one human family. Our differences pale in comparison to our similarities: The fundamental need to love and be loved. What else is there? And for all who claim God as their justification: God is Love (to quote the Scripture). Bottom line. No doubts. When asked to sum up the law and the prophets, Jesus said: Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. No stipulations or exceptions.

[A&R S]

In 1968, fully a year following Loving v Virginia, the majority of voters did NOT approve of interracial marriage. They thought it was against God's law to mix the races, with the appropriate scriptural verses in support.

The more it changes, the more it stays the same. Omit the word interracial hetero marriage for us and it is the same bigotry.

[John Hosty]

Here is an actual quote from the supreme court ruling in Loving vs. Virginia in reference to the laws that prevent interracial marriage: "These statutes...Deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."

[A&R S]

Yes, John - CA shows that for the neocon theocrat- it is about the $$$ earned with hot button issues that sway the sheeple.

When you win in the courts, they scream foul, when you win in the legislatures, they scream foul. You have a "constitutional court" when the neocons win, and you have legislative fiat when the neocons win.

It is sometimes all too exhausting for my American friends in the Commonwealth and elsewhere. Most of we Canadians are still in shell shock that federal recognition throughout the nation is now law, with Supreme Court approval, and parliamentary passage, and yes Royal Assent.

Here is an irony - all four nations that have full samesex marriage rights are all constitutional monarchial democracies.

HM, Queen Elizabeth, Queen of Canada
HM, Beatrix, Queen of the Nederland
HM, Albert II, King of the Belgians
HM, Juan Carlos, King of Spain

Now, I realise that MA is the citadel of republican liberty for you, our southern neighbours.

But don't you have any queens to give royal assent???

[Anna]

Since there are some new people on this post, I thought I'd restate my position. Do same sex couples want the rights that have been attached to marriage or do they want to change the definition of marriage and hence, to fundamentally change our society? If it is the latter, I can assure you you will lose in the long run. If it is the former, most clear thinking people will work with you to achieve transaction rights through appropriate legislation. Pick your battle carefully. You may win the MA battle, but you'll lose the war. Even Hillary Clinton agrees with me, and she says she agrees on this with VP Cheney. Strange bedfellows, but on this, they are both right.

[Cherie Johnson]

Anna...just how do you define marriage?
I'll tell you how I define mine. I define my marriage as a lifetime commitment to the person I am in love with. The person who I want to have and raise children with. It has nothing to do with you or my next door neighbor. I could care less what you do in the privacy of your own home. If you think that my marriage is going to undermine the value of yours then YOU are the one who is sadly mistaken and shall ultimately lose the WAR!

[Ghengis Cohen]

Even Hillary Clinton agrees with me, and she says she agrees on this with VP Cheney.

Heh! I told you she was a smart polititian, and will probably get my vote in 2008, if she puts her money where her mouth is and pushes an FMA forward. So to turn your own question on you, Cherie, do you find Hillary Clinton threatening? I don't. I agree with her on health care, and on the FMA.

[Cherie Johnson]

Hillary is no threat to me nor is any other human that walks this earth. My tolerance for those who are under the assumption that my civil rights should be on a ballot runs thin at times, but in the end I know that the gay and lesbian community will prevail and the discrimination will end. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but I heard patience is a virtue. I can live with the fact that people have differing opinions on the subject, but what I can't live with is the fact that those opinions are being shoved down our throats. Someone mentioned that there isn't a "heterosexual pride parade" and that they didn't understand why there was a gay pride parade if we didn't want to shove homosexuality down the throats of the heterosexual community. It's very simple really. If the heterosexual community wants a parade then have one...I have the choice not to attend. Same with church...I can choose not to go and hear the sermons bashing the homosexual community. This holds true for the heterosexual community as well. If you don't want to go to the parade...then don't go! If you don't want to attend a church service that is more accepting of gays and lesbians...then don't!
It amazes me that people can piss and moan about a parade and say we want special rights, yet they tune in to Will & Grace and laugh at the homosexuals on TV. It's OK to watch them on TV, invite them into your homes night after night, week after week, but then turn around and say they are not your equal and deserve less than you. Let's see...there's the St.Patricks Day Parade, the Italian American Parade, blah..blah...why not Gay Pride? Wasn't the Gay Pride Parade started to celebrate what happened during the Stonewall riots? When the gay community finally stood up and said they weren't going to take any more shit from the police raids on the bars. The Pride parade is a tribute to those GAY and LESBIAN AMERICANS who stood up and said enough is enough. If you don't like it...don't go.
One last thing...If Hillary runs she will more than likely get my vote. I do disagree on some key issues, but overall I think she would certainly do a better job than the fool we have now...wait...Curious George could do a better job than the fool we have now. The FMA will NEVER pass. It will get pushed off the slate when the conservative Christians crawl back into the hole they came out of. The political tide is turning and the conservative walls are crumbling.
Make way...or you might get hit with a brick!

[Ghengis Cohen]

Cherie, I said that there was no heterosexual pride parade. I NEVER said that I didn't understand why there is a gay rights parade. I DO understand that. My point is simply that non-gays don't self-identify as "heterosexual" in the way that you self-identify as lesbian.

I took a woman's lit class in college, mainly because I love Toni Morisson, and didn't realize that "woman's lit" involves the professor using masturbatory deconstruction to make the text make whatever the prof wants it to mean. I was one of two guys in the class (I think the other one had a serious case of Stockholm syndrome), and the postmodern prof was trying to distort Toni Morisson to say that (and I quote) "all women are lesbians." At this point I'd given up on an actual discussion of anything Morisson had *actually* said, so I took bait and asked her to define lesbian. She said, well, it's someone who prefers the company of women, whose best friends have always been women, etc. I listened very carefully, and then announced, stroking my beard, that by that definition, that I too was a lesbian.

I looked at the other guy (since I knew that he too fit all the elements the prof had described) but he was practically hiding under his desk.

After a moment of painful silence, one woman in the class shouted out at me: "NO! YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT FROM US!"

[Ghengis Cohen]

As a closing note to the story, the next class day, Toni Morisson denounced the postmodernists for reading lesbianism into "The Bluest Eye" and other stories, and I gloated quietly as the class tried to explain away Ms. Morisson's explanation of her own work as "denial."

[Deanna]

Mr. Genghis, dear !!!

You are a walking, talking, breathing and written literature and history class, dear !!! I really learn alot from you, dear heart, but why do I feel that I get "baptized" by you, your POOKEY POOH, when we touch upon the reason why you own the word and culture of marriage?

One minute, you are supportive of many of your fellow detractors - suggesting that they are victims and need to bring cameras, and send tapes to you for Ms. Gallagher to use for national usage- and the next minute, you are supportive of the SSM community, whom you call the LTSSR's.

Oh, I noticed that your godmother died dear. Sorry, really sorry. Lousiana like your wife, eh dear.
And your historical note on creoles, dear heart, you drop innuendoes like some people drop names LOL, and when someone bites- you pounce....LOL.

I think that I don't believe me when you say that you like dominant and alpha women, dear !!! I do not believe you one bit, young man !!!

I think that patriarchy is your defense for keeping the word marriage. You say that they need a father....and imply that women think only that you are sperm donors.

Most women raising children, dear, have no fathers in the home. That is a fact, dear heart. Your model is a minority reality.

You may have a secular, as opposed to a spiritual opposition to the equal spousal role, but you are a proponent of the Rush Limbaugh school of Feminazism. A smart, clever, word savvy, and literary young male supremacist, but one nevertheless.

I have noticed that your most virulent diatribes, or your most clever zingers and gotchas are reserved for alpha feminist women and disdain for males, hetero males, who do not share your definition of marriage. You blame them as well for the destruction of your sole proprietorship of the word marriage.

Well, dear, the very young adults are not with you. They use the word spouse and look for equality in marriage.

When Herb and I married, the minister pronounced us " MAN and wife". Now, when our son married, they said " HUSBAND and wife," and we went to a wedding where the male and female were SPOUSES IN LIFE AND IN LOVE.....

My dear, stop trying to be the MAN at all costs....your wife probably knows that you are the frail one, dear heart.

Now, as my grandson says, I suspect that " you are about to have a new one torn for you, gram?"

If you do, dear, be gentle on this septuagarian. My husband is not the dominant alpha male he used to be. ( I know dear, he's been married to me....give him some advice on how to regain his patriarchal role LOL )

[Ghengis Cohen]

Posting the same response on multiple threads, are we? OK.

Dear Deana -- Please tell your grandson that his homoerotic prison metaphr does not apply here. My patriarchal role is as safe as if my wife's matriarchal role. We do not threaten each other one teeny bit. We step on each others' toes less and less, and have gotten to the point where we dance quite well together. We can tell by the music, which dances she leads, and which dances I lead.

I'm not "trying" to be a man, any more than I was when I played Catherine's Maid in Henry V. Some men and women happen to love a verbal battle almost as well as a good story. I mirrored nate's hostility, Cherie's hostility, and I'm mirroring your condescension, pumpkin.

I won't mirror your psy-ops games, your mental Mengele tricks. I think that someone that uses pychological jargon to tear down someone's spirit is the moral equivalent of medical doctors that help revive people for torture interrogations. You use tools of healing in order to do harm, and I won't stoop that low.

LTSSRs aren't the gay community. An LTSSR simply refers to individual family. And yes, I do recognize they are families. A different kind of family, which is why they deserve a different name. Unlike you, I do not tell myseif lies about my opponents in order to demonize them and justify cruelty. If you think that it's inconsistent for me to not consider LTSSRs a form of "marriage," and yet protect them from harm and insult and try to secure legal rights for them, then you've managed to live seventy years without grasping what a principle is. And that's a sad thing.

[Cherie Johnson]

You know I have been reading these posts from the very beginning and I am just astounded by the ignorance that runs rampant throughout the community. The preconceived notion that “we” the gay and lesbian community are asking for “special” rights and privileges is absolutely absurd. What has been said before and went without notice is this: the heterosexual community is the one with all the special rights and privileges. They can marry, adopt, and collect their spouse’s Social Security in the event of death etc .not to mention TAXES. So aside from these benefits there is one more to add to the list. “Marriage” in the heterosexual community essentially means social acceptance. You can bring your husband or wife to a company “HOLIDAY” party and introduce them as your LEGAL spouse, which means you took a vow to love one another through thick and thin. For better or worse, richer or poorer. Socially this means a solid commitment to forsake all others.
How can this be thought of as just for the heterosexual population? How can this be thought of as the gay and lesbian population just wanting “special rights and privileges”? It isn’t.
I hate to tell you ignorant rambling “idiots” that the gay and lesbian population have the same relationships with the same meaning as YOURS. There is NO DIFFERENCE EXCEPT IN YOUR HEAD.
My marriage poses no threat to my parent’s marriage of 35 years. My marriage does NOT demean or undermine my parent’s marriage and if you think it does then perhaps you should seek professional counseling as you have serious issues and insecurity about your own marriage.
Same sex marriage does NOT undermine “family”. That excuse is growing tiresome. Family has different meanings to many people. One perspective of “family” should not be forced down the throat of everyone. All aspects should be respected even those that are more traditional.
It boils down to this…Same sex marriage is not going to make the sky fall down or ruin all civilization as we know it. Marriage is a civil right that belongs to all of those who wish to engage in it, not just the heterosexual community, as they like to believe.
Bottom line is my marriage hurts nobody. It won’t hurt my children if I so CHOOSE to have some and it doesn’t hurt your kids either. YOU hurt your children by passing YOUR fear onto them. YOU pass the torch of discrimination onto your own children by continuing to think the gay and lesbian population is a threat. Will you be a proud parent if your child comes home and says,” Yeah I punched Billy in the face because he has two FAGGOT daddy’s.” Will that make you a proud parent? Let’s get a bumper sticker that reads,” PROUD PARENT OF (name of child entered here) WHO PUNCHED A FAGGOTS CHILD IN SCHOOL!!” Kids learn from their parents….how about you teach your kids to accept EVERYONE as their HUMAN equal…then maybe you will start to do the same.
Richard I am sorry that you felt the NEED to stand outside City Hall on May 17th carrying a discriminatory sign. It is too bad that you can’t accept the fact that CIVIL RIGHTS have no right being on a ballot. Perhaps you should consider moving to Alabama or Texas. I hear that there are still some “good ol’ boys” over there. You will fit right in.
In case the conservatives haven’t noticed, the coat tails in which the religious right have sat their FAT ASSES on for the last 5 years are becoming rather tarnished. The tide is turning and folks are getting FED UP with being dictated and lied too. Isn’t this what the conservative religious population is famous for? They dictate how we should live our lives (cause if we don’t conform, we will go to hell) and they LIE, like Pat Robertson telling folks in PA that the wrath of God will fall upon them for trying to introduce the theory of intelligent design. (I forgot that everything in the Bible was backed up by scientific evidence….Who knew?) Give me a break. For those who are unaware of this little ditty…. Pat Robertson is the one who gives out those little stickers that says “Marriage = 1man & 1 woman (little male and female figures). They are sponsored by the 700 club. How about a sticker that says “ Marriage= Commitment, Love and Respect”??????

[Kazimierz Ochap]

Why my comment dated november 15,2005 was removed? Please put it back!!! kazquo@aol.com

[Chip L]

Considering what happened yesterday, and with the belief that he left it open so that he would be back....I am coming back to the blog.

After the departure, and all of a sudden, the Gay and Lesbian Community is beginning to post on this blog. We hope that HE has shared all he can, and believe that we have understood his agenda....nicely packaged in posts equal to the pages of WAR and PEACE.

Tyler Cowen, who has been gone for weeks, has come back, hours after THE GREAT STRATEGIC DEPARTURE/RECESS. What a
surprise !!! I am underwhelmed. He was never to return, blah, blah. What can you do with your evenings if you can't bash a few queers asking for it, eh?

I said the same, of course, but I am a gay man who acted like a drama queen....it's one of my gay genes, aside from my 501's - and it is a gay blog, not a right wing freeper site. But I was serious, the repetitive insulting mantras was indeed shutting down the gay response to the loss of our rights.

This morning, gays and lesbians are coming out of the woodwork. Hi everyone !! It was blissfully quiet last night......

Our stories are many and varied, but share a commonality with all oppressed minorities.
Nothing angered me more than to hear that we did not own Stonewall - but needed to share our gay bashing stories growing up gay in a homophobic environment.

The Dobson Puppets especially, want to play the victim card strategy. They are the ones being bashed by gays (incredulous isn't it?) and they are the ones losing their rights. This position is outrageously false, yet when you repeat a mantra over and over again, and stay on message 24-7, it resonates with the angry white heterosexual man who feels a "Promise Keeper" need to return to the cave man model.

The only "gay and SSM stories" I heard was that there were two categories and not one. We had the marriage VERSUS the single culture, and that both did not deserve marriage now or in the future. We heard that our story would end with the FMA nullifying what had not been already been made illegal.

John Hosty and Ray deserve to marry if they choose. So will I when I find someone to share my life with. I want a family as well.
The first struggle is to retain SSM in MA and then to win that right in the rest of New England and elsewhere. Then, it will be necessary to fight FMA, if the neocons and the theocrats succeed in passing it and sending it to the states.

John, I WILL BE THERE on December 7, and I am NO CHEF. But I can follow directions, and I KNOW who my dish will be eaten by the staffers if not the anti-SSM legislator himself.

I am also willing to do what other gays and lesbians have done in other countries. It is also what the civil rights activists always do....protest with their feet, and demand our minority rights from an oppressing majority wanting to keep the definitions and prejudices and bigotry of the status quo, or in our case, the status quo ante.

[Ghengis Cohen]

This morning, gays and lesbians are coming out of the woodwork

Where? You're the only one to post this morning.

[Ghengis Cohen]

John Hosty and Kazimierz were the only ones to post between my last post, and yours. This isn't "democrats.com," where the mods routinely modify the discussion in your favor for you. The discussion you see on the board here, is actually the discussion that happened.

[Stanley Pryhoda]

John Hosty, since these so-called "allies" of yours seem to be holding your program hostage, I will withdraw temporarily. I've made no secret of my support for the petition and for an FMA, but I also want the gay community to be able to tell its story. It's a sad thing that some people would prefer to stifle dissenting voices than to tell their own story. Let them gloat. Maybe I'll be back in a few days, and maybe I won't. Best of wishes to you and yours. Your health and happiness is in my prayers.

Posted by: Ghengis Cohen | November 16, 2005 at 11:45 AM

HE'S BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

[Stanley Pryhoda]

The Petition has one week to go and his political allies told him to take a strategic break.....for a few hours....He is disingenuous to the core. I am a gay guy who has been lurking for weeks.

I won the bet, because he had to come back. He is obsessed and besides, I said he wouldn't do what he said....thanks Genghis, I am $50.00 richer and I will put it toward KTN.

[Ghengis Cohen]

I withdrew temporarily to make it easier for you to plan, stan, but you and chip did nothing but continue to grouse about me.

Like Chip said already, when you want to whine and make up stories about those you don't like on a forum where they aren't allowed to answer you, go to democrats.com

[Chip L]

You, sir, are a lying bastard. You fooled some individuals with your "disappearing act" but most of my friends thought that your ego and your agenda would not permit it.

However, since you don't obfuscate, I will act as if you were a man of your word, and you are not here.

This is the last posting that addresses you directly from me.

[Ghengis Cohen]

Oh come off your high horse, Chip. How many times did you say yesterday that you were leaving, before you finally stopped posting for a couple hours?

[Chip L]

Good evening brothers and sisters,

This morning, when it seemed as if we would again begin to share together, I had decided to speak to my MA neighbors first.

Our SSC's enjoy the reality of state recognized marriages. This is wonderful. We are fighting so that when I find a life partner, I can also enjoy this important civil status and marriage culture.

In my mind, both gay men and women are in one communal effort for SSM retention. We do not accept differences between heterosexual or homosexual singles or couples, and neither does the law.

It is not unusual for a gay or straight young person to mature beyond his "dating years" and settle down to spouse status and fatherhood.

Heterosexual criminals on death row, total strangers hooking up in Las Vegas, and countless similar heterosexuals have the full federal and state marriage certification. If they marry outside their state of residence or nation, there is reciprocity.

Much has been said about our own stories, and this morning I mentioned that I own STONEWALL. We all do.

John Hosty spoke about the reticence of other GLBT organizations to join us in EGGPLANT DAY. The NAACP was not too supportive of Dr. MLK, Jr. at first either.
There was a division between the accredited and academically-trained and "jackboot" African American clergy and the Southern Leadership Conference.

All minority groups struggling for civil rights have both conservative and activist organizations. Both are necessary. We need to cook EGGPLANT on Pearl Harbor Day before we share with our families.

How much organizing does it take for couples to decide to cook EGGPLANT that Wednesday night and remember why? How much effort does it take to meet at eleven a.m. on December 7, at the steps of Beacon Hill?

Don't forget that the Security guards like EGGPLANT casserole too....especially if they are cute Italian Americans ;D. (Be still my gay heart !!!!!)

So, with plastic forks and spoons - you can be the official taster when you knock on the door of an opposing solon. If he/she refuses it, leave it with a hungry staffer.

Love to all my brothers and sisters.

[John Hosty]

I love you Chip, see you on the steps, 11 it is. I Hope to see more of you there too. Thanks for all the emails of support, I am trying to answer each one, so bear with me. Remember strength is in our unity. Being brave doesn't mean voilent, you can accomplish more with a word than you can a fist.

[Anna]

Put the question on the ballot and let the people of Massachusetts decide, not some judge. Why are you folks so afraid of that?

[mark]

Anna -

You must have noticed that we are now threading on COMIC RELIEF and on PETITION FRAUD, and not on AG ASKS KTN TO ASSIST IN FRAUD INVESTIGATION.

Did you believe that you could "hit and run"? Anna, your dominionist theocratic masters whose talking point you just spewed, would like you to stand up and roll us over. Us, of course are all the straight and gay liberal Christians, Jews, etc...who oppose a theocracy in America.

The American consitutional framers knew the dangers inherent in majority rule oppressing minority rights. That is why they established the JUDICIARY. Now, I KNOW that the only decisions you like are theocratic and neo-conservative, but we want secular pluralistic equal justice under law.

Hey, Anna, don't hide on an old thread.

[Paul Jamieson]

Mark the liberal progressive fascist should be in church praying for forgiveness.

Mark do you want to know where I live so you can come down and kick my theocratic, dominionist ass?

You will soon after you read the petition. You may be quite busy harassing over 160,000 people in Massachusetts though.

Maybe we should post your names and addresses somewhere where we can intimidate you. Why not?

Take you lame opinions to Canada or somewhere where someone cares.

For you to hate the country that has been a beacon of Freedom around the world for centuries, and continues to support liberty and fredom of religion worlkdwide is so typical of the fringe left wing Gods you follow. Michael Moore and your precious Howard Dean have destroted your party. Only now are Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton (phony) and others waking up to the extremist crap you have beenn espousing.
Keep dreaming about your Utopian society. Either that or go to France and burn a car. You pathetic liberal.

[Anna]

Note to Mark:
So defensive. I'm just a social moderate who asked a simple question. Why the bile? If you want to see what a real theocracy looks like, check out Iran. Or better yet, go live in a truly secular pluralist nation like Communist China or North Korea. I doubt the framers would have supported meddling with the definition of marriage.

[mark]

"I'm just a social moderate who asked a simple question"

Anna, I will treat your response with more respect than it deserves. You were coming to a defunct thread to leave a scripted talking point...let the people vote...
If you truly believe that you are a "social moderate", then there is a problem either with your agenda or your definition.

Paul - your ad hominem attacks are meant to provoke. I will merely let your anal flatulence, hick style, fill the room with the stench it is meant to evoke.

[Cherie Johnson]

ha....ha...what a way to start the day. Anal flatulence....
Mark...don't give them anymore of your time. They are only here to provoke and antagonize the gay community. It is their ticket to the big house in the sky if they get the "gays" back where they belong...(in the closet).Don't engage them. Reasoning is not in their vocabulary nor is acceptance which by the way the gay community has been since we have had to swallow all the main stream gay bashing for many, many years.
They will never listen and will always use Jesus and God as their scapegoat for their unacceptable behavior of spreading their HATE!! They are in fear...of what is the question(maybe they think our "ways" will rub off on them just like they thought with AIDS.)
Which brings me to our Presidents comment on World AIDS Day about how the homosexual community has done a great job combating the disease. Like our community is the only one hit by the disease. Oh...I forgot they STILL consider this disease to be the GAY PLAGUE that we deserve due to our DEVIENT lifestyle.
These folks like Paul, Tyler and Anna do not have the capability of standing on their own two feet without their beloved history book(their bible) instructing them how to oppress and discriminate. They speak of love and devotion in one breath and in the next breath they call us sexual deviants that want "special" rights given to us and that we are the cause of the priests molesting children in the catholic church, we will cause children to be confused about marriage, we will ultimately cause society to be corrupted (as if they didn't do a good job with that all by themselves).
We are the blame for all their problems Mark...so why would you give them another minute of your time?

Billy Graham and the Christian Crusade Against Truth and Freedom[NOTE: Quotes in this paper, unless otherwise indicated, come from Billy Graham’s first book, Peace With God. Page numbers refer to the revised paperback edition, published in 1984. Historical information was drawn from the hardcover edition of Graham’s autobiography, Just As I Am. Scriptural passages were taken from The Billy Graham Training Center Bible, which uses the New King James translation.]PrefaceHere is my third paper concerning the potential for dictatorship in the United States. My first two papers focused on the political danger posed by religious conservatives. In Rush Limbaugh: Voice of the Religious Threat in America, I briefly described the enemy ideology; and in Sean Hannity and the Tactics of the Enemy, I addressed some of the strategies that religious conservatives use to spread their ideas throughout the culture.This third essay takes a more fundamental look at the threat of American dictatorship. Putting politics and the media in the background, I more critically examine the threat’s religious nature. Here I inspect the evangelical creed of Billy Graham, whose brand of Christian faith, I believe, props up much of our modern cultural and political world.The Evangelist of the MassesIn 1934 Billy Graham committed his life to Jesus Christ. He was sixteen years old.By 1940 he was an ordained Southern Baptist minister, graduated from the Florida Bible Institute with a bachelor’s degree in theology.In 1949 he achieved national fame during a celebrated campaign in Los Angeles, where famous radio personality Stuart Hamblen publicly pledged his life to Christ after listening to Graham’s sermons.Graham’s popularity quickly blossomed with some additional help from William Randolph Hearst, who allegedly ordered his many newspapers to “puff” the promising young evangelist. It wasn’t long before competing newspapers followed the media tycoon’s lead.Within a year of the Los Angeles Campaign, Graham started an evangelical radio program, The Hour of Decision; he began making propaganda films; and he formed the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association (BGEA), which, to this day, remains a powerhouse for the global distribution of Christianity with annual support and revenues now totaling approximately $90 million. (www.billygraham.org, BGEA 2003 Annual Report)On July 14, 1950, Graham met Harry S. Truman at the White House. This was his first time witnessing to a President. During that conversation, in response to Graham’s inquiry into his religious beliefs, Truman said that he tried to live according to “the Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule.” Graham boldly informed the President that that was not enough. “It’s faith in Christ and His death on the Cross that you need,” he replied. (Just As I Am, p. xx)Since 1950 Graham has ministered to eleven American Presidents, befriending and influencing several of them. George W. Bush, for example, in his autobiography A Charge To Keep, credits Graham with planting a “mustard seed” of faith in his soul in 1985—a faith which grew for a year, he says, and ultimately helped him give up drinking and recommit his life to Christ.Graham has also met many foreign leaders, such as Queen Elizabeth II and Pope John Paul II. In 1992 he handed copies of the Bible and his first book, Peace With God, to Kim Il Sung, then president of communist North Korea.Most of Graham’s life, however, has been spent attending to the masses of common folk. Over the decades, in addition to setting up charitable organizations, he’s conducted hundreds of popular campaigns and crusades in cities all over the world. In 2004 he set a Rose Bowl attendance record for a non-sporting event, drawing more than 300,000 people over four days. (www.ap.org, Billy Graham Wraps Up Historic Crusade, Nov. 22, 2004) According to his bio, he’s preached the gospel message to “more people face-to-face than anyone in history.” He created two still-thriving periodicals, Christianity Today (originally aimed at presenting the fundamentalist viewpoint to Protestant liberals) and Decision (the official magazine of Graham’s Association). He continues to make propaganda films; he’s hosted successful television and radio programs; he has a newspaper column; and he’s written numerous religious books. His classic, Peace With God, has been read by millions of people in over thirty languages.In 1983 Ronald Reagan gave Graham the Presidential Medal of Freedom, in recognition of his service to the nation. And in 1996 Graham rose to the highest rank of citizen when he was presented with the Congressional Gold Medal, an honor which had been previously awarded only 113 times in America’s history. He and his wife, Ruth, received this medal for their “outstanding and lasting contributions to morality, racial equality, family, philanthropy, and religion.” Representative Charles Taylor (NC), who introduced the legislation to honor the Grahams, said at the time: “there exists no greater public servants in our nation, or indeed the world, than the Rev. and Mrs. Graham.” To Taylor—and presumably to his fellow Congressmen who unanimously supported his bill—this evangelical couple “represent[s] the mainstream of American Christianity.” (www.congressionalgoldmedal.com/BillyRuthGraham.htm)The Bible Says …With the money his Association collects, Graham builds schools for training more evangelists and sponsors seminars and conferences with the purpose of spreading Christian fundamentalism throughout the world. In the year 2000, for example, he invited 10,000 Christian leaders from more than 200 countries to Amsterdam, where they pledged their lives to the shared mission of “world evangelization.” In their “Charter of Commitments,” these Christians agreed that:The Bible is indispensable to true evangelism. The Word of God itself provides both the content and authority for all evangelism. Without it there is no message to preach to the lost. (www.christianitytoday.com, The Amsterdam Declaration) The evangelist’s absolute dependency upon the Bible is also reflected in Peace With God. In this book, as is customary in many such religious works, Graham quotes and references the Bible ad nauseam. Phrases such as “The Bible tells us …” and “The Bible teaches …” can be found on practically every page—sometimes multiple times in the same paragraph. (p. 108) “The Bible says …” appears over 80 times within the 276 pages of the revised paperback edition—and that’s only one example of many synonymous expressions used throughout the book.Clearly, evangelists are intimately attached to the Bible. And to understand these people—to know what they truly represent—we ought to pay careful attention to their special relationship with the most popular and revered book in the history of Western civilization.The Wedding of Ignorance and ContradictionO God! There are many things in [the Bible] I do not understand. There are many problems with it for which I have no solution. There are many seeming contradictions. There are some areas in it that do not seem to correlate with modern science. I can’t answer some of the philosophical and psychological questions … others are raising …Father, I am going to accept this as Thy Word—by faith! I’m going to allow faith to go beyond my intellectual questions and doubts, and I will believe this to be Your inspired Word. (Just As I Am, p. 139)At the ripe age of thirty, Graham programmed himself with the above standing order; he packed his suitcases and moved to the land of make-believe. He knew full well that he was ignorant of the truth and that the Bible was riddled with contradictions and impossibilities. Yet, still he married his mind to that ancient book which so thoroughly confounded him. He gave up on reason and science and placed his ring of faith upon the imaginary finger of God.Graham must have had a damn good reason for wedding himself to the Bible, given all of its flaws:If I could not trust the Bible, I could not go on. I would have to quit the school presidency. [At the time, Graham was president of Northwestern Schools, a Christian college in Minnesota.] I would have to leave pulpit evangelism … It was not too late to become a dairy farmer. (Just As I Am, p. 139)I guess Graham hated dairy farming more than he valued the truth.An Anti-World WorldviewDo not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (1 John 2:15)The Bible taught Graham to hate dairy farming. It taught him, in fact, to hate the entire world. In Peace With God, Graham tells us that the Bible tells us that “[we] have three enemies that will be warring against [us] as long as [we] live.” (p. 190) One of these “enemies” is: “the world … the cosmos, this world system.” (p. 193) Graham says that this place tends to lure us into sinful pleasures. Therefore, we must take care to be “in” the world, but not “of” it. (p. 198)Question: Why do the Bible and Mr. Graham want us to think that “the world” is our enemy?Perhaps it has something to do with the stipulated fact that the Bible contradicts much of what we know to be true about the world. Hell, even Graham recognized the Bible’s “many seeming contradictions” and its inconsistency with scientific findings.Indeed, the World is a natural enemy of the Bible. By merely existing, Nature undermines the validity of much of what’s written in the Testaments. For Graham’s myth-based worldview to survive such a powerful, natural assault, the World itself must be utterly demonized and disregarded.In Peace With God, Graham wastes zero time beginning his demonization of reality. Here is how he starts the preface to the revised edition:In the three decades since Peace with God was originally written, an embattled world seems to have permanently lost its fragile grasp on serenity. For the first time in history, an entire generation of young people lives in fear that time, in the form of a nuclear holocaust, will run out before they can grow up, which may explain in part why tragic numbers of them at the peak of youthful promise find various ways to drop out of life. We have become a generation of escape artists. As I write these words, armed conflicts are raging in many places around the globe and the streets of more than one great city ring with gunfire. An American president was assassinated since the book was written, as were an attorney general, a civil rights leader, an Egyptian president and a famous rock star. Another president was the victim of an attempted assassination. Hostages have been in many places and a Korean passenger jet shot down. Many wars have been fought. Nor can we turn to the security of our homes to find inner peace, for many of our homes simply aren’t there anymore as nearly half of all new marriages now end in divorce. This strife that runs rampant in the world at large is but a reflection of the conflict storming individual hearts. (p. vii)And concluding the book Graham reminds us that:The world is becoming more helpless and more hopeless as we enter this terribly involved and complicated computerized technological age. (p. 260)And also:It seems that the world is heading toward Armageddon … We’re not going to have peace—permanent peace—until the Prince of Peace comes. (p. 273)Wars, family strife, helplessness, hopelessness, terrible computers, Armageddon, the Second Coming of Jesus … If you haven’t yet figured out the proper Christian attitude toward the world, Graham does have a more direct approach:Our attitude toward [the world] as Christians can be summed up in one word—renounce. There can be no bargaining, compromise, or hesitation. (p. 198)Remember: True Christians must renounce the world because it is their natural enemy. If they didn’t give up reality, they might actually renounce the Bible, instead, on account of its many problems and contradictions. Then evangelists like Graham, whose livelihood depends upon the validity of the Gospels, would have to find a real job—such as dairy farming.Is this principle still too abstract? If so, Graham is happy to further concretize it for you:When Christ enters into the human heart, He expects to be Lord and Master. He commands complete surrender. He demands control of your intellectual processes. He requires that your body be subject to Him. He expects you to surrender your talents and abilities to Him. He expects nothing less than that all your work and labor will be performed in His name.Too many of today’s professing Christians would give up going to church before they would give up getting a new refrigerator. Given a choice between making the down payment on a new car or contributing to the building of a new Sunday school, it is easy to guess what the decision of many would be. Thousands of so-called Christians are putting money and the things that make up our high standard of living ahead of the teachings of Christ. We can find time for the movies, baseball, or football games, but we can’t find time for God. We can save toward a new home or a bigger television set, but we feel we no longer can afford to tithe. This is idolatry. (p. 148)Renounce this world, Graham says, and surrender your mind and money to the Bible’s fantasyland: a magical place where the heavens and the earth were created ex nihilo by a singular, mysterious force, who today conveniently reveals itself only to people of special faith; a dreamland where human beings sprang from dirt and one male bone; where Adam’s “sin” is supernaturally inherited by every newborn babe; where a man once walked on water and rose from the dead, not to mention every other physically impossible thing that Jesus did; and where reunion with God requires that we ignore the knowledge of our senses and reason and have absolute faith in the Bible’s fables. Yes, Graham says, believe in this alternate universe of talking snakes and virgin mommies. Support your evangelist. Don’t buy that new household appliance, you idolater! Tithe to your local church, instead.How else will religion survive the awful blows of reality?Satan’s Irrefutable LogicNow the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field, which the Lord God had made. (Genesis 3:1)Evangelism has many powerful enemies. In addition to its omnipresent, metaphysical antagonist, the World, it also has a terrible man-made attacker with which it must contend. This foe is Reason, or, as Christians have personified it: the Antichrist, Lucifer, Satan, the Deceiver, the Murderer, the Ruler of this World, the Serpent of Old, the Prince of Darkness, the Wicked One, the Father of Lies, the Adversary. You name it.[T]he devil is a creature of vastly superior intelligence, a mighty and gifted spirit of infinite resourcefulness … His reasoning is brilliant, his plans ingenious, his logic well nigh irrefutable. God’s mighty adversary is no bungling creature with horns and tail—he is a prince of lofty stature, of unlimited craft and cunning, able to take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself, able to turn every situation to his own advantage. (p. 63)You cannot argue with [Satan] for he is the greatest debater of all time. (p. 191)Question: Why exactly is Reason (i.e., “the devil”) an enemy of the Bible and Mr. Graham?Well, clearly the Bible cannot compete with the mountain of rationality and science against its fictional world. And such a radical evasion of the truth as that of the evangelist must necessarily result in more and more dishonesty and an increasing supply of enemies. You see, once the world is rejected and demonized by the Christian fundamentalist, reason soon shares its fate, because reason and logic are the mental tools with which man understands the world. They present another sinister threat to the Bible-thumper’s means of survival. For if too many people are logically persuaded to reject the Scriptures, then it’s off to the dairy farm for Graham and friends.We know that the Antichrist will appear and try to ensnare the minds and hearts of men. (p. 63)I suspect that the myth of Satan and Hell is a conscious attempt to frighten humans away from their own reasoning minds, just as I suspect that the myth of God and Heaven is an attempt to guilt humans away from the facts and values of this world. Being fundamentally and professionally dependent upon the Bible’s particular fiction and lies, people like Graham necessarily accept its never-ending, no-holds-barred battle with the Objective World and the Reasoning Mind:Always the devil is standing at your side tempting, coaxing, threatening, cajoling. And always on your other side stands Jesus, the all-loving, the all-forgiving, waiting for you to turn to Him and ask His aid, waiting to give you supernatural power to resist the Evil one. You belong to one or the other. (pp. 64-5)Perhaps Graham knows that the World and the Mind, if not stopped, will one day fully mythologize the stories of the Bible, just as they made mincemeat of the Greek gods and several other defunct religions. Human history has painted a long picture of one religious failure after another—it is a tale of reason and science evolving and growing stronger and faith and religion flailing and slowly dying out. And one day Man will, most likely, embrace the Tree of Knowledge and the Logic of Satan. He will finally understand truth and falsehood, good and evil, as it relates to the Bible and the World. He will cure himself of the insanity of revelation and prayer. And he will end his faith in the Judeo-Christian absurdity.I believe that religion’s day of reckoning is coming. That victory, however, is not an absolute certainty. For, people like Graham are doing everything in their power to stop people like me.The Myth of the Sinful Self Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)Graham’s blacklist wouldn’t be complete without some mention of Human Nature:The third enemy that you will face immediately is the lust of the flesh. The flesh is that evil tendency of your inward self. (p. 196)Bible-loving Christians believe that Human Nature, or the Self, is also to be renounced, because it is inherently sinful:Just as we inherit characteristics such as intellect, coloring, body size, temperament, etc., from our parents and grandparents, mankind inherited its fallen, corrupt nature from Adam. (p. 46)It is not difficult, then, to understand the mythological source of the hardcore Christian’s increasingly maniacal anti-selfism. God, you see, initially rubbed some dirt together and created a servant named Adam, who, in turn, evilized his own soul by foolishly disobeying the Lord’s will and eating the forbidden fruit. Adam’s sinful nature was then passed down throughout the generations of man, as if it were a hair color. And this bit of fantasy (Original Sin), says the evangelist, explains why you have a selfish self, which does all sorts of nasty stuff that God hates.Egoism and selfishness are the marks of sin as surely as are theft and murder. (p. 55)To anti-self Christians, acting on the principle of self-interest is equated with murder. To obey thy “corrupted” nature, they say, is to murder thine hope of Heaven. To consider this animated body to be my most precious value, as egoists believe, is to damn my soul to eternal Hell. My Fleshy Self, therefore, is my own worst enemy—right after the Objective World and the Logical Devil, of course.Question: Why must the Bible and Mr. Graham make an enemy of our selfish Human Nature (i.e., “the flesh”)?Let’s consider some basic facts. First, like all living things, the human body has fundamental requirements for its continued existence. I’m talking here about conditions of life that come even before food and water. What are these needs? Well, they happen to be precisely the first two “enemies” of the true Christian: objective reality (the world) and reason (the devil).You see, in order to survive, the human being must rely on his rational understanding of the world. If denied his perception and conceptual brainpower, he will not be able to find food, water, and shelter, and he will die. It’s as simple as that.Thus, having made mortal enemies of the World and Reason, consistent Christians find it necessary to also condemn the Human Self. For, man relies upon this world and his reason in order to live. If he is permitted his means of personal survival, he will ultimately ruin everything upon which religion is based. He will come to know myth from fact. And, in the end, he will choose the truth in order to survive. Evangelists must, therefore, ideologically sentence man to death on account of what he is: a user of reason in an objective world system.This, my dear reader, is the face of supreme evil. It is the creed of evasion, lies, and sacrifice. It is the expected design of the master scam artist, who takes people for everything they’re worth—everything. The Bible itself is his handbook for pulling the wool over society’s eyes. It is a tome for leeches. And people like Graham, who make their living by selling the Bible’s fraudulent wares, use its vacuum power to suck charitable gifts and works from productive men—in order to sustain their own parasitic existence.And what, might we ask, does man get in return for sacrificing his own life to the Bible and its preachers? Ah, yes, he gets a born-again self. Another fantasy. Another lie:… I want to tell you some glorious news. Jesus said you can be born anew! You can have the fresh and better start for which you’ve prayed. You can lose your despised and sinful self and step forth a new person, a clean and peaceful being from whom sin has been washed away. (p. 165)While man’s real person is being drained dry of life and value, he can imagine Jesus providing him with a new nature, a new self, to replace the one that’s enslaved to religion.And what kind of life can man look forward to with his born-again self?This new nature that you receive from God is bent to the will of God. You will want to do only His will. You are utterly and completely devoted to Him. There is a new self-determination, inclination, disposition, a new principle of living, new choices. You seek to glorify God. You seek fellowship with other Christians in the church. You love the Bible. You love to spend time in prayer with God. Your whole disposition is changed. Whereas your life once was filled with unbelief, the root and foundation of all sin, and you once doubted God, now you believe Him. Now you have utmost confidence and faith in God and His Word. (pp. 171-2)You know, I always wanted to be a dutiful slave to a higher power.Praying for a DictatorWatch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. (Matthew 24:42)So far I have pointed to Graham’s three primary enemies, those that he actually admits to in Peace With God: the World (objective reality), the Devil (reason), and the Flesh (selfishness). Now I shall discuss something else that I suspect he hates almost as passionately. That is: individual rights and capitalism.As far as I can tell, Graham rarely, if ever, denounces these ideas by name, and they are not part of his official shit list, which he discusses at length in chapter 14. Nevertheless, he cannot deny that he advocates the antithesis of an individual rights-respecting political system such as laissez faire capitalism. In fact, he has devoted his entire adult life to preaching about and praying for the future religious dictatorship of Jesus Christ:One of these days the sky is going to break open and the Lord Jesus Christ will come back. He will set up His reign upon this planet[.] (p. 273)Out of curiosity: What kind of ruler would Lord Christ be, Mr. Graham?Jesus demands Lordship over all such things. He wants you to yield everything concerning your social life, your family life, your business life to Him. He must have fi