Grocer's Acknowledge Wrongdoing; Toss Out Signatures

Thanks to your diligence and the work of KnowThyNeighbor.org, grocers and retailers have been alerted to reports of petition circulator fraud taking place at stores across the State.

As a result, the Massachusetts Food Association has acknowledged wrongdoing and will be tossing out hundreds of signatures gathered by workers hired to pass the wine petition since they believe that petition was used illegaly to dupe citizens into signing a second document, the anti-gay marriage petition.  The President of the Massachusetts Food Association, Chris Flynn, stated in a Worcester Telegram and Gazette story yesterday that "We don't condone these bait-and-switch tactics.  What happened was illegal."

Unfortunately, KnowThyNeighbor.org has received no indication that anti-gay marriage petition sponsors will be joining the Massachusetts Food Association in discarding the tainted signatures gathered by these workers on their behalf.

Individual grocery store chains have also reacted positively after being made aware of fraud reports. Starting the day after our September 25 encounter with "buck-a-signature" petition circulators, Wild Oats has not allowed petition gatherers on their premises.  Now Stop & Shop, Shaws, and Star Market have joined. We must continue to monitor activity at these stores and make sure anti-gay marriage petition circulators are not allowed to return. Be sure to scrutinize petition circulators at Target store locations especially as they have been the source of many complaints.

Report any suspicious activity directly to store managers and to the contacts listed below:

Corportate Contacts
TARGET, Guest Relations, (800) 440-0680
Shaws/Star Market, Judy Chong, (508) 313-3318
Stop and Shop, Rob keene, (617) 770-6023
Massachusetts Food Association, Chris Flynn, (617) 542-3086
Massachusetts Retailers Association, John Hurst, (617) 523-1900

Civil Investigator, Attorney General's Office
Nicholas Paras
nicholas.paras@ago.state.ma.us
(617) 727-2200 x 2883

KnowThyNeighbor.org Fraud Alert
Send email to reportfraud@knowthyneighbor.org.

Tom Lang, Director

Comments

[Tyler]

You can only win in the courts, and you know it.

If this matter were left to the people, marriage would once again be defined as one man and one woman, and I will re-iterate what I said before:

The amendment WILL NOT take away those marriages that have already been certified!

Blessings!

[John Hosty]

tyler, tyler, tyler you are a buzy little bee aren't you? Are you side stepping the issue that you team has been caught cheating AGAIN?!
At least lie to us on top of it and tell us you do not condone the actions of bait and switch name collecting as it is ILLEGAL. "...Forgive us as we forgive those who have trespassed against us." Come judgement day i will take my side next to the people who HAVEN'T hurt anyone else in the name of God or any other cause and see what happens. If you could find a way to approach your cause without reveling in the pain you create you might get more to listen.

[John Hosty]

7:30AM: 88 Tremont Street LGBTQ.. & Allies Large-Scale Protest against anti-gay conference by Focus On The Family. The "Love Won Out" Conference teaches participants to "cure" and "prevent" homosexuality. Their messages and attitudes are especially dangerous to queer youth who are around 4 times more likely to attempt suicide.

[Tyler]

John, john, john.

Nothing. Just doing what you do.

Have a great day!

[John Hosty]

Did you run out of things to say Tyler? I am still waiting for you to explain how our multi religious society is going to benefit from losing gay marriage to follow your specific religion's ideology.

[Tyler]

Losing gay marriage?

We only have it in Massachusetts, where are you "losing gay marriage" except here?

But, I'll give you this:

Christian stance on homosexual marriage: against.

Jewish stance on homosexual marriage: against.

Muslim stance on homosexual marriage: against.

That's got to cover better than 80% of the country, I would think...so...ummm...did you have some other point you wanted to bounce off me?

[William]

Tyler - Did you know that 90% of the people polled in 1948 after California dropped its laws against a white person and a non-white person marrying did not like it? Did that make it right? I would imaging that a majority of southern voters disagreed with the ending of slavery and I am sure that a majority of the German citizenry thought it was a good idea to cook up some Jews. Your point being?

This is a CONSTITUTIONAL democracy pal. What about us who are not a member of your religious cult? We just have to like it that your religion doesn't like us? Why am I supposed to do what your religion tells you to do? This is NOT a theocracy pal.
AND by the way, all Jewish communities are NOT against same sex marriage, nor are all Catholics, etc. etc. etc. So like all bigots - you are just wrong and trying to find a way to justify your hate. In a few years, you will be at the side of history just like all the other bigots in the world.

[John Hosty]

Cite all the religions Tyler

Buddism: For
Unitian: For
Wiccan: For

That's why it called religious freedom. So I don't have to be bound to your beliefs.

[CPT_Doom]

Christian stance on homosexual marriage: against.

Jewish stance on homosexual marriage: against.

Actually, there are both Christian and Jewish congregations that are pro-equal marriage rights, so your statement is a little broad.

Of course, when I was growing up, I learned there was only one true Christian church - the Catholic one, so on that accord you are correct, although you would have to consider all other "Christians," including Mitt Romney, as heretical blasphemers.

[John Hosty]

We have laws to protect us from religious persecution. Because marriage is a sacrement in most religions most people are confused into thinking that gay marriage will change the sanctitiy of their religion. What good people are trying to provide is a civil equality, not a religious one. Rights are given to married couples that are not given to gay partners. Giving gays an equal civil marriage in the eyes of the courts does not take anything away from anyone's religious sanctity. Everyone is still free to teach their children whatever they want, as we still live in the land of the free. Laws are created to protect people both public and private, and their assets. Laws should never be made that force a minority group to adhere to the ways of a religion they haven't chosen. That's terrany.

What I haven't seen is anyone address is the situation that arises after this vote is over and let's say gay marriage is voted out, and the high courts uphold that decision. What then? You will still be living with gays in your community. They will still have their families. They will still be at your work, in your stores, and yes they will still be teaching your kids. The only thing you will have accomplished is now the hate groups which religions say they don't want to be associated with will now feel entitled to harrass gays, further damaging our own society. Once gay marriage is defeated and people still can't see what harm it caused, people will wonder why this petition was needed. I will remind you that in the fervor pitch of the Salem Witch Trials there was no talking to the opposition. If you didn't confess to being a witch you were killed. 19 people died rather than give up on the God they loved. It was the church who brought these people to death and the majority of people watched silently less they be next. I am a big fan of Giles Corey who defiantly cried, "more weight!" as he was crushed to death by religious persecutors. I wonder if he ever gave any thought to being wrong because he wasn't part of the majority. I will keep posting here until this is over because there is a lot at stake, and I know in the bottom of my heart that people can understand everything I am saying, and the good people of this and other states are trying to decide what is right. Think about it. Ask questions, and talk to your friends. There are so many reasons to like or not like someone, it shouldn't come down to this. Please don't let the religious fool you into thinking gays are bad and need to be kept seperate and unequal. You are better than that.

[Tyler]

John -

Your words EXACTLY:

This is a CONSTITUTIONAL democracy pal.

My response - EXACTLY! What about the people voting on this issue is contradictory to your statement?

Enough said.

[Tyler]

Whoops...that was William the Newcomer that wrote that.

My bad. Point still stands, however.

[Tyler]

John -

Your words:

Cite all the religions Tyler

Buddism: For
Unitian: For
Wiccan: For

Mine:

BuddHism: Founded by an enlightened man that needed someone else to tell him to share his message. Not too enlightened, you think?

UnitARian: It doesn't matter what god you believe in, or even if you believe in a god. Doesn't really sound like a solid religion to me?

Wiccan: Belief that there is a mother god and a father god. Lots of other weird stuff.

Let's find some more, if you're really searching:

Mormons (which is what Romney is, BTW): Against.

Hindus: Against.

Christian Science: Don't know, don't care. They believe that they ARE gods. Wow.

My point still is that the majority of people in the majority of religions, for whatever reason, stand against homosexual marriage. That's why putting this thing up to a CONSTITUTIONAL vote by the people really scares you, isn't it? In every state where it was voted on, traditional marriage trumped. Massachusetts will soon follow...and I'll be there to see it happen.

[Tyler]

From the website's Mission Statement:

KnowThyNeighbor.org is a grassroots, non-profit organization dedicated to removing barriers to public information by making it available online. If it's public information, it should be simple for a member of the public to access it!

So, I return in kind with LOTS of public information:

Homosexuals disapprove of website Know Thy Neighbor.

http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Ne&article_code=524

And again....

http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Op&article_code=509

Who is Westerhoff?

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/09/090805massAmend.htm

Does anyone want to write a letter to Thomas and his husband?

http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/09/outing_their_op.html

Or better yet, you can call them at:

http://www.whitepages.com/9900 and search Westerhoff in Massachusetts.

The number is 978-526-9707, but please DO BE POLITE so I don't get in trouble.

It's all public information, right? I wouldn't be surprised to see my post taken down, despite their claim that posting public information is totally legal and should be readily made available to anyone.

Oh, and they were "married" before they were married...

http://www.gay-civil-unions.com/HTML/State_By_State/Massachusetts.htm (scroll to bottom)

And just in case you want to know what they look like:

http://laotze.blogspot.com/2005/09/know-thy-homosexual-this-is-photo-of_12.html

AND Thomas notes that he is personally going to be aggressive! I thought that this was for informational purposes only?

Cell number is also available on that last site, as well as MULTIPLE contact numbers and addresses.

Remember, it's all public information...google search turned it up...I'll keep going till I drop...

Are either of you founders going to prevent this information from getting out there, or are you going to stand by your mission statement? I would not be surprised if this post gets deleted.

Still going...

Westerhoff gets in a scuffle with police, shouts profanities at someone? Then claims, despite no evidence of being hurt, that he has muscle pain?

http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/06/09/News/CounterProtester.At.god.Hates.Fags.Ministry.Protests.Alleges.Assault.By.Brooklin-956482.shtml

Seems that their approach isn't necessarily peaceful and often entails false allegations:

http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/06/16/News/Brookline.Police.Dept.Launches.Investigation.Of.Alleged.Assault-957672.shtml

The address of their antique shop...don't do anything stupid, just stop by and tell them you don't appreciate what they are doing!

http://www.antiqueadvertiser.com/shops_c-h.htm (scroll down, or do a find on Westerhoff, it's on 144 Main Street in Essex, I believe).

Their addres is 3 Colburn Road, Manchester, MA, here's the map to it:

http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=3+Colburn+Road&csz=Manchester%2C+MA&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=

Here's an interesting note...and a good idea!

http://talkingdonkey.worldmagblog.com/talkingdonkey/archives/2005_09.html (again, search westerhoff)

How about this post on a blog?

http://www.ilfilosofo.com/blog/category/culture/

Making sure that voters don't have a choice in the matter? That sounds pretty accurate, really.

And yet another address...and the co-founder is married to a WOMAN?

http://ontheotherfoot.blogspot.com/2005/09/good-neighbors.html

7 Sunrise Road, Boxford, MA (978) 887-8547 in case you want to call Aaron.

Wow, it's amazing how much PUBLIC information is out there. Go and see for yourself, I'm sure you can dig up lots of stuff on me! Pretty soon you'll have my address, anyway.

Blessings!

[Tyler]

Note the sign:

http://www.knowthyneighbor.org/mission.html

And note the sign:

http://www.voteonmarriage.org/aboutus.html

You hijacked the picture and gave them a new sign? That's just wrong.

[Tyler]

Oh, and ps, for those of you that can't get the links, HIGHLIGHT the whole link (hold down left mouse button and drag over link). With the link highlighted, hold down CTRL key and press C (Ctrl-C) for copy. Open a new web browser (under file -> new -> window. Select the WHOLE link that's in the browser window and then press CTRL-V (hold down ctrl, then press V) and this will paste the link from here into the link up there. Then press enter and voila - you're into the site.

I know that not everyone here is as technically astute as some of the rest of us, and since this site doesn't support hyper-text links, I thought it would be only fair to teach you, dear reader, how to master this task!

[Tom Lang]

Wow Tyler,

"Got on my Tuesday panties, but I guess you know that too."

To our straight bloggers, that was a line from the movie, "Big Business" starring Lily Tomlin and Bette Midler.

Tom Lang

[Joe S]

Seems that Tyler does not even want us to use the same picture (which is was not taken by them and is NOT their property either)...

Gee Tyler, if we use the same picture as your gay hating sight, does not mean that it will ruin the fabric of society or hurt the children?

Maybe we should get a petition drive going to make sure that picture stealers don't undermine websites.....

Does this sound foolish?

Yes....about as foolish as trying to stop gay marriage....

Gay marriage HAS NO EFFECT ON ANYONE'S MARRAIGE....HAS NO NEGATIVE EFFECT ON CHILDREN OR SOCIETY....

Infact, I and many of us would be VERY interested in seeing some PROOF of this so called negative impact gay marriage is supposed to have on marriage and society. It has now been a year and a half since the SJC struck down the unconstitutional inequities in marriage - SURELY something so menacing and destructive a force would have had time to begin to show its ugly head.....

And please don't give us the garbage about "long term effects"....the "long term" effect of living is death so that proves nothing.....WE WANT TO SEE SUBSTANTIATED FACTS AND PROOF NOW or else you should just stop this inappropriate action and let us all get on with our lives ESPECIALLY since NO ONE is requiring ANY CHURCH to bless these marriages!

[John Hosty]

He can wax on all he wants, My points are getting more concise and his more fragmented. Laws are prevented from being made based soley on religious beliefs. That ensures we are free to do as we wish and face our own mistakes when we see our maker in the end. I have already filed my comlaint that the Arch Diocese of Boston is in violation of their 501(3)(c) tax exempt status for all of the petition drive they are working so hard on with the Attorney General's office and Senator Edward Kennedy.
I know for sure that people felt justified in the 1960's about keeping the races from intermarrying since I was born then. It was the same old arguements with little change. It doesn't seem to make much sense now, though 38 years had to pass before they started to be treated as equals. I don't want to wait that long to be proud of my country again. The silent masses see all and hear all. In the end they will come forward and vote on the side of righteousness, and send a message to fanantics, "Your time if scaring us into unity and usurping our combined power for your own agenda of hatred is no more, I will not follow a false profit."

[John Hosty]

John Hosty
281 Lafayette St.
Salem, MA 01970
978-239-7837
salemmaman@aol.com

I stand up with my head held high and say "Equality is for all, and those who cannot fight to have it for themselves us few brave people must rise and defend them ourselves. Religious terrany has got to be defeated once and for all. anyone wishing to contact me feel free. I am not afraid to stand out on the porch with shotgun in hand and say "these people are in my protection, go spread your hate elswhere."

I am not afriad to show EXACTLY who I am Tyler. I was student senate president in NECC from 1990 to 1993 as well as the student trustee from 1991 to 1993. I also gave my time to the State Student Association of Massachusetts as president under executive director Joseph Langis. I volunteered my time with the boys club on sundays for bingo, and was a assistant youth group minister for St. Joseph from 1991 to 1993. All this while helping take care of my daughter Dorothy. I am a well experienced intelligent man and I know a rat when I see one. Why don't you tell us EXACTLY who you are now?

[Joe S]

Don't count I it John, Tyler does his best work in the dark and behind the scenes...he will never TRUTHLY tell you who he is!

[Tyler]

Dear John (yeah, that was for effect),

Tyler Dawbin...you can piece it together from the first name, and my e-mail address. The G in my e-mail is for my daughter, Garnet, who is 7. Her mom took off on me about 3 1/2 years ago to hook up with her high-school boyfriend. She took my daughter out of the state. 5 months later, the judge termed her a flight risk, and gave me full custody...but not before multiple allegations of abuse by my ex, resulting in investigations in two states, all proven to be untrue. After 2 1/2 years, my ex finally moved to the state, and now we have a shared parenting plan.

My phone number is unlisted, for some really good reasons, but my cell # is 508-241-2276. My home address is also unlisted, again, for some very good reasons, but as soon as the list gets published it will be out there.

If you REALLY want to know who I am and what I stand for, go find my docket in Bristol County, Taunton Massachusetts. Search the name, I'm not going to post the # here, but it's all public information.

You'll find out that I'm a guy that cares deeply about my child, and doing what is right for her. You'll learn that my faith is very much a part of who I am. You may even come to understand the level of compassion I have for my fellow man (even you) if you got to know me at all.

And ... one more thing ... the legalization of homosexual marriage in the Netherlands has resulted in a drop in the number of marriages in that country. Seems that people don't think marriage is that important anymore, which is sad, because marriage is one of the most fundamental building blocks of our society.

I am never hiding behind any mask, I haven't said that I'm anyone other than who I am. What am I supposed to come out and tell you that you probably can't find on the internet, anyway?

Blessings!

ps John, you violated your own rule of never responding to me again, or was that a whoops?

[soxfan]

Some numbers for the National Center of Health Statistics:

Number of Massachusetts marriages in 2003: 36,764
Number of Massachusetts marriages in 2004: 41,163

Number of Massachusetts divorces in 2003: 15,858
Number of Massachusetts divorces in 2004: 14,086

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr53/nvsr53_21.pdf

[Henry Fullmer]

Gay marriage HAS NO EFFECT ON ANYONE'S MARRAIGE....HAS NO NEGATIVE EFFECT ON CHILDREN OR SOCIETY....

If I decided to smoke som pot or shoot up heroin in my own home that does not have a negative effect on others so I guess that should be legal then by your definition.

[Phil]

Apples and oranges Henry... work on your analogies...