Must Watch TV!

Here's the Fox Undercover petition fraud segment for those that missed it when it originally aired.

Former paid petition worker Angela McElroy reveals the bait-and-switch tactics she was taught by her employers and demonstrates just how easy it is to steal signatures (she averages one bait-and-switch every two minutes in the video) and states petition workers can make as much as $1,200 on a good day!

Also watch for...

• Attorney General Tom Reilly casually explaining that he is powerless to do anything about the fraud and stating that perhaps we should pass some laws against it (hmmm, yeah that sounds like a good idea).
• Evelyn Reilly of the Massachusetts Family Institute (petition sponsors) claiming that her organization was totally unaware the company they hired to oversee signature collection, Arno Political Consultants, had a national reputation for using fraudulent tactics (they might want to do a basic Google search the next time they hand someone what must have been hundreds of thousands of dollars).
• Senator Augustus discussing his petition anti-fraud bill.

Take-aways from this video: (1) The initiative petition system in Massachusetts is a disgrace; (2) The petition sponsors hired a sleazy, out-of-state company to do their dirty work while grandstanding to the media that they were running a grassroots, citizen-driven campaign; and (3), Tens of thousands of fraudulent signatures may have been collected.

Aaron Toleos, Director

Comments

[John Hosty]

Tyler your hatred of homosexuals has nothing to do with God, and if He were here he'd slap the stupid off your face Himself. Comparing gay marriage to NAMBLA is the worst thing I have heard you say yet. You refuse to admit how hateful you really are, but all can see it right here... except for you. The Devil comes in many forms and his favorite is to come in Christ's name. Christ is the bringer of peace and love. What do you bring here? I heard they need to be saved over in Iraq, perhaps you could tame their wild ways with your Christian kindness?

[Joe S]

Tim

You say

"Don't we remember that SSM came about when the legislator closed session ILLEGALLY way back in 2001 when we had 180,000 signatures and they decided the will of the people was worthless??? This should never have happened - but alas - welcome to Massachusetts politics"

The obvious answer is that if the people of Massachusetts felt so ill used by the legislators then the easy remedy was to vote them out in DROVES in 2004....

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN TIM...infact...3 biggoted legislators lost their jobs in that election and were replaced by 3 pro-gay marriage candidates who actually MADE GAY MARRIAGE A BIG PART OF THEIR PLATFORM!

2006 will spell DOOM for many more anti-Gay candidates....I would like to see a list compiled of ALL of the legislators that voted for the last "compromise" ammendment plus add to the list those that voted for the 1 man and 1 woman ammendment back in 2003 and place that list on this board and other places as a "voters guide" of who to vote against.

The time as come to put away those who openly support bigotry and inequality in a state (and a country) that is supposed to be about equal rights for all.

[Alex]

Tyler,

Having read your off-the-wall comments it is no secret why your wife divorced you.

[Tyler Dawbin]

Just out of curiousity, have any of you been to the AGO website to see that the names that will be on the petition WILL NOT be posted, only the names that were on the original that was submitted for certification?

This is gross intimidation, and an outright lie...unless one of the list owners can direct me to a link where I can see the names of petition signers in the past.

Thank you and goodnight.

[Tom Lang]

Tyler,

The list of names and addresses (public information) of the signers of any petition are available from our Secretary of the Commonwealth's office after the names have been counted and filed by the Secretary.

In 2001 the list was presented to the Legislators and was made available on disc file to any lobby group or individual who sent a letter of request to the Secretary, just as it will be done this time.

There is no intimidation here on behalf of KnowThyNeighbor. We will be requesting this list to supply the public with easier access to this very public information. There is however, intimidation on the behalf of those who would fabricate false scenarios and threaten those who would be exercizing their Constitutional Right of Free Speech to speak out in disagreement with those same people who would take away their rights and their right to protect their families.

There is intimidation here but it is not by gays and lesbians and those who beleive in Equal Rights for All, but by the very people who feel that in order to succeed they need to silence those who they choose to oppress.

[John Hosty]

Lol, Tyler is so flustered he doesn't even know what time of day it is. The more hate you bring, the more it comes back to you.

Blessings,
John Hosty

[John Hosty]

Joe S. if you get that list, bring it here and blog it so we can all copy it down. Thanks.

[John Hosty]

I am happy to report that operation Eggplant Day is complete. Senator Augustus is the first Senator in United States history to enjoy Eggplant Day, and Ray's cooking.

Have a happy day no matter where you are.

[Tim]

Ghengis

You bet . . . keep up the good work!

[Tom Lang]

Congratulations and THANK YOU! to all who visited the Statehouse on Eggplant Day. It is wonderful to see that this sort of creative communication got its start here in the KTN.org blogs. And that it was all of you who made it happen.

Please send pics and stories to knowthyneighbor@gmail.com

[mark]

Brothers and Sisters - The gay-affirming Christian community has something to say.....

By Kety CrossLeft Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 05:42:56 PM EST
Hello from all of us at CrossLeft.org!

First and foremost, thank you for linking to us as an organization and for the conversation that you are having on this site!

I'd like to ask if you can please add us to your blog roll and/or communities section and would also like to invite you to cross post on CrossLeft.org whenever you think something may be of particular relevance to those of us in the progressive Christian movement.

It seems to me that there is much synergy between the work that you are doing here and our own ministry at CrossLeft.org In the spirit of movement building, I'd like to share with this community an open letter that speaks a little more to our work. Moreover, I would also like to invite you to swing by our site and blog about your work too!

Peace & justice,
Kety

Dear Friends,
Momentum is growing. Progressive Christians are organizing a movement for social and political change, giving voice to Jesus' ministry of compassion, service, and social justice. CrossLeft is leading the charge and providing balance to the Christian voice in our nation's political dialogue.

In just 9 short months, CrossLeft co-organized the Path to Action Conference at the National Cathedral, DC and has launched:

* CrossLeft.org a Website community, national progressive Christian calendar & portal featuring the exclusive CrossLeft News Service

* A Speaker's Bureau

* Weekly Podcasts

* A Community Outreach Program: Faith in Action

* The CrossLeft College Network: Agitating for Action

Individuals like you, unpaid volunteers, came up with many of these ideas and spearheaded them. The growing community called CrossLeft exists to support exactly this kind of work.

A good example is the Rev. Robb Moore, outgoing Associate Chaplain at the University of Richmond, who decided that Progressive Christianity needed an on-line radio presence. Robb pitched the idea to us, and now CrossLeft has a weekly, podcasted sermon, in streaming audio, complete with an archive.

It does not stop there, our future plans include:

* Organizing progressive Christian leaders in San Francisco this coming February to set our agenda for 2006

* Convening leaders from different church and political organizations around the United States

* Co-sponsoring a Conference in Washington, DC, September 2006, to mobilize for political change according to Progressive Christian principles

* Engaging 1000 Christian communities in churches, community groups, and colleges

Your participation is vital to this movement. Think about what needs to be done to change the face of Christianity in our society to reflect Jesus' image. Help us plan real, tough strategies for change, and help us implement our plans. The movement is young, and we require the brain, heart, and hands of all convicted, progressive Christians to turn the country around.

There are many ways for you to get involved today:

* Participate in our active online community at CrossLeft.org by: blogging, commenting, and podcasting.

* Share your reactions to current events & contemporary culture with us.

* Add your own sermons, editorials, and opinions to the conversation.

* Organize your community for outreach.

* Join the CrossLeft College Network: Agitating for Action or Faith in Action.

* Start a local book club, discussion group, or education initiative to help your local faith community understand how progressive, liberal, and socially aware the political side of Jesus's teachings are.

* Sign up to join our Speaker's Bureau or request a speaker for your organization.

* Contribute to our efforts by sending a donation to CrossLeft at 2400 Pacific Ave., Apt. #304, San Francisco, CA 94115.

Please forward this to other family and friends. Where we go next is up to you.

Peace and blessings,
Kety, Jenn, Jo, Stu, Steve, and the rest of us at CrossLeft.org, Spanning the U.S. and three continents

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CrossLeft.org & the Progressive Christian Movement | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden) | Post A Comment

[new] thanks for stopping by, Kety (none / 0)
and telling us about CrossLeft. I know that there are as you say, many synergies between our sites. Could you tell us a little more about how thinking about the religious right figures into CrossLeft's plans, (since that's our topic around here) and what approach you see yourselves taking?

by Frederick Clarkson on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 06:23:17 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none12345 ]
[new] CrossLeft & the religious right (none / 0)
Hello, Frederick, Sure thing.
At CrossLeft we believe that the increased activism of the Christian right has produced an imbalanced view of Christianity and that this has had an adverse impact on our nation's politics and policies.

As Christians we believe that it is a political misuse of faith when President Bush uses religious zeal to justify policies that favor bombing, killing and war over peace. His "Axis of evil" approach does not model the teachings of Jesus any more than does Pat Robertson's call for the United States to assassinate Venezuelan leader Victor Chavez.

When CrossLeft first launched in March of 2005, one of our main objectives was to reclaim our Christian faith. We believed that it was time that there be a movement to re-center the conversation as it relates to Christianity and we felt that as Christians we had an important role to play in that movement and a moral obligation to raise our voices, take responsibility and engage in dialogue. As progressive Christians, we could not be mere spectators. We had to be in action, contributing to a society that reflected our values. If not us, then who?

We believed that there were many others like us across the U.S. and decided to launch an online community where we could meet and chat. That was nine months ago now in March of 2005. Since then the CrossLeft community has grown into an amazing group of progressive Christians who are in action, working to reclaim their faith, helping to organize the movement of the Christian left and working to provide a place for dialogue between the left and the right.

by Kety CrossLeft on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 06:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none12345 ]

[new] great, thanks for explaining (none / 0)
Now let me ask you a friendly but perhaps hard question. (I don't think that there is any one answer to this, and as you probably know, there have been a number of approaches discussed here so far. This site is partly about reclaiming faith, in the ways you describe, in ways appropriate to people's traditions, and most importantly, I think, in terms of understanding the role of faith in relation to citizenship in a constitutional democracy based on religious equality.)
How do you see the necessarily competetive aspect of political life in a constitutional democracy in relation to the dialog you say you are seeking with the right?

I understand that these are not mutually exclusive ideas, and indeed, we have had any number of discussions about helpful ways of approaching discussion and dialog, and we will continue to.

But we would not need to be having these conversations with and about the right -- but for the political power of the Christian Right.

by Frederick Clarkson on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 07:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none12345 ]

[new] Your questions (none / 0)
Frederick you ask about:

the role of faith in relation to citizenship in a constitutional democracy based on religious equality.

the necessarily competetive aspect of political life in a constitutional democracy in relation to the dialog you say

you are seeking with the right?
Let me take a stab at this & see if I answer your questions-

A key aspect of what I was hoping to accomplish by launching CrossLeft was as follows:

How could I as a progressive Christian who believed in the separation of church and state, still have the power to witness & declare proudly what is personally true to me,

"I am progressive because I am Christian & my being a progressive Christian does inform my political choices."

In my opinion progressives have gone to far and we have gotten to the point in many progressive circles where separation of church and state does not mean separation of church and state but rather that we as a Christians need to be careful about saying that we are Christians because it might be construed as not being committed to the separation of church and state.

Well, the point of CrossLeft.org was to gather a community of people who do believe in the separation of church and state but who are also very clear that their faith influences their politics (on a very personal level & that personal level is true for a multitude of the American people).

I believe that to say otherwise would be a hypocricy. Our political choices are informed by who we are. For me that means being a Latina, born in upstate NY who was raised Christian and more specifically, Catholic.

I think that in this day and age in the name of the separation of church and state we have created a progressive society that is scared of speaking to & witnessing faith. And that this has alientated many Christians, myself included. The reason I started CrossLeft.org was, in part, because I was sick and tired of it being taboo in progressive circles to witness one's Christian faith.

To me it seemed like the most logical connection- one flows from the other. To be a Christian, following Jesus Christ's teaching means to be progressive.

& I wanted my progressive brothers & sisters to get that- regardless of what faith they came from, if any.

Now, to be very clear. That does not mean that one witnesses one's faith in a way that has an adverse impact to others. On the contrary.

i.e., I need to be self expressed & be able to witness my faith but by the same token, my fiance, who is an atheist needs to be self expresed & be able to be respected in his beliefs, which do not include the belief in a higher power called God.

We all need to be able to feel that we can be fully expressed.

And to deny Christians full self expression and having people feel like they need to be hidden Christians in order to be accepted as progressives, just does not work. It leads to the alientation of some Christians who in my opinion should & could be the base of this movement.

I will speak for myself and let me exaggerate a little--

It got to the point where I knew that I did not agree with the Christian right, but when I was with my friends on the left, I felt that in order to not offend peoples' sensitivities there was a social construct that asked me to be a "hidden Christian". And when I would out myself and tell the people in the progressive circles where I ran that I was Christian, a hush would fill the room... and people would wonder if I was truly progressive.

At CrossLeft.org we are committed to changing these constructs. One of the most progressive leaders of all time was Jesus. Some of the most progressive movements in our nation have come from the Christian tradition.

The reason I started CrossLeft.org is because I knew I wasn't alone and that there were many others who felt just like me.

Now, in so far as the Christian right- let me take what I have said so far a bit further.

I would say that many of our brothers and sisters who right now align themselves with the right do so only because they do not see an alternative.

The perception for many is that there is the Christian right and then there is the Secularist left.

It is our opinion at CrossLeft.org that we need to make it very, very clear that there is another option. One could be a progressive Christian.

[Richard Gregoire]

Tom;
Regarding your 12/07 entry, we all know that gays and lesbians never engage in intidation or silencing of the opposition.
Give me a break...talk about rhetoric.

[Paul Jamieson]

Mark,

Stop pushing your religion on me

[mark]

Paul,

Stop legislating your religion against me.

[John Hosty]

When Tom Lang was accused of having a website that promoted intimidation he responded with a very clear and concise answer. The same information is made available by the government to the public. Tom posts it here so people can find it more easily. The list provides a service to those who believe their name was incorrectly put on the petition. It also gives gay people who are interested an opportunity to see who opposes them, which is a fundamental right in court, to face your accuser. I would not have gotten so mad or have been so active if it had not been for the Morans at 415 Lafayette St. I live right down the street and was beside myself when I found out two of the origional signers of the petition were my own neighbors. I have not harrassed them as you suggest, but it has called me to act by being politically active, and I find no problem with that. In fact I don't have any evidence that anyone anywhere has had any experience of being harrassed simply because their name was posted here. If anyone would have had trouble here it would be me. I posted my name, address, and telephone number to prove the point that there is nothing to fear when this arguement was being tossed around at the begining of the blog.

This answer should be clear enough for anyone to understand. If you don't, let me know and I will explain it further. Drumming on about this after being given a good explanation is like beating a dead horse. None of us benefit when the "stick to your guns" rule is used in the stead of good debate.

[Paul Jamieson]

John - of course your explanation is the right one.

The almighty Hosty has spoken!

You can sugar coat it any way you want John -

MOST GAYS ARE AGAINST KTN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul Jamieson]

http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Op&article_code=509

Love thy neighbor

When it comes to calmer heads prevailing, the gay community should also beware of turning to Tom Lang and Aaron Toleos, co-directors of KnowThyNeighbor.org. Lang and Toleos are publishing an online list of names and addresses of everyone who signs the anti-gay marriage people's initiative amendment petition - allegedly to help Massachusetts residents "know thy neighbor" better. What it really amounts to is intimidation of neighbor.

Evan Wolfson, the popular leader of Freedom to Marry, often speaks of three types of Americans when it comes to gay marriage: Those who oppose gay marriage no matter what, those who support gay marriage no matter what, and the vast majority of rational, just people who are in the persuadable middle. His advice? Don't bother with the first group; it's a waste of time and resources. Rally the second group; they can be mobilized. And reach out to the third group; they will respond to personal stories which touch on the American principles of love, equality and fairness.

Those who sign the anti-gay marriage amendment petition, by and large, belong to the first group, the intractable anti-gay minority. Launching any sort of attack on these people - and making a high profile display of these people's signatures is an attack - is not only a waste of time and energy, but ultimately will backfire among those in the middle.

Furthermore, the title of the organization, Know Thy Neighbor, bastardizes the golden rule: Love thy neighbor as thyself. By perverting this universal maxim to justify intimidation only leads to setbacks and bad press, as witnessed by the justifiably condemnatory editorial in the Boston Herald on Friday, Sept. 9.

It's time that these activists return to the spirit of the golden rule and drop the intimidating hate tactics that we as gay people have had to endure most of our lives. After all, it was intimidation that provoked a bunch of drag queens in New York City to fight back against police force at Stonewall in 1969; imagine what intimidation could motivate in virulently anti-gay people. •

[John Hosty]

I see you have gone back to posting this comment with citing it properly. Could that be to make people believe it is the opinion of many rather than the opinion of one man? Let me help you give this story its proper credit:

OPINION James A. Lopata September 15, 2005
EDITORIAL

This is what appears just above the article Paul keeps posting as the will of the people. Feel free to read it, it actually calls for us to behave or we would have a backlash effect from our opposition. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am angrier than I am afriad, and I will no longer remain quiet. I stand in open defiance of Paul's call to silence this website and silence us once again.

[John Hosty]

Paul is a liar. Here let me show everyone what a liar he is. Paul, where did you come up with the information that, "MOST GAYS ARE AGAINST KTN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"? If this is not just your own opinion and it is fact like you try to suggest, state your source. Some people have no intention of being a good neighbor, Paul is one of them. I wonder what the attraction is for him here. Paul is one of the very few people I can say have been posting at this blog longer than I. At least I can say that I am gay and have been called into action by reading my neighbor's names on the petition. I wonder if Paul has some experiences from his youth or some deep seeded feelings about other men that he finds loathsome, and wants to lash out at others with similar feelings in a fit of displaced aggresion. One thing most of his posts make clear; there are people out there that think abuse is a form of self expression.

[Callie Wise]

This is funny, John. Paul posted this on the first thread too, like back to back. How sad!

You know, I remember right before I came out being a rabid homophobe. Man, I hated anything remotely gay!! I was so angry that probably the only thing that kept me from being a basher was that I was a woman (after all, who would I bash?).

You have to wonder about people that protest TOO loudly.

[John Hosty]

Well put Callie. Paul has posted this several times within the months that we have had this blog open. I am there every time he implies that this article is the voice of the gay community, to make sure people know it is an editorial from one man. Keep up the good work everyone, we are making our points heard as the tally on the Boston Globe poll proves.

[Paul Jamieson]

So the editor of the "largest GL newspaper in New England" means nothing to you John?

Do you think he just said "I'll write this article because I feel like it" or "maybe no one will notice" or "no one will read this"?????????????????????????

Even you look silly on this one John, and your responses are very telling. No mention of the fact that the editorial is very moderate in tone, and in fact, very rational.

"I am there every time he implies that this article is the voice of the gay community, to make sure people know it is an editorial from one man."

One man who happens to have the ear of the gay community and editorializes on issues of import to the community!

You call me a liar!

And Callie, dear Callie, don't pull the smug gay baiting tactics with me. That is about as sad as someone teasing you by calling you a dyke or fag. You are acting like the ignoramus who calls someone a name or implies they are something to belittle or denigrate.

My aim has never been to attack homosexuality.

My goal is to shout down those who aim to subvert the democratic process.

Be they gay, straight, blue or polka dotted!

[Paul Jamieson]

From a leading "progressive" blog - BlueMass Group.

September 09, 2005
Know thy strategy

In his post on AG Tom Reilly's decision to certify the anti-marriage ballot initiative, David mentioned a website, KnowThyNeighbor.org, whose purpose is to "out" those who would sign the ballot petition. David seems pretty sanguine about the legality of such a website.

It may be legal, but it's an absolutely terrible idea.

The pro-marriage movement needs to understand what stage of the game we're in. There is a slim majority in favor of retaining same-sex marriage as it currently stands, and we've definitely got momentum on our side, but the situation is still very fluid -- here and nationally. That means that we absolutely need to treat our opponents with the respect and dignity that we wish to receive.

The most likely result of such a website would be to alienate people from our cause. Look at the image on the index page of the site: A public-domain image of a woman staring with exasperation at her computer, doubtless cursing her neighbors' ignorance. What the hell would people do with such information? Hold a protest rally at their neighbor's house? Send a nasty note? What are the odds that someone will do such a thing? Let's not kid ourselves: 1-1.

Several people have mentioned that MassEquality put out some shrill and misleading advertising on Pat Jehlen's behalf. That doubtless cost her votes to Joe Mackey, who had identical views on gay marriage but did not have such abrasive stuff associated with him. We don't have the luxury to drive away voters in this case.

As David implies, the only way to act when meeting the petitioners is to be more patient, more nice, more accepting and more sweet-natured than the other side. In other words, treat everyone like you would treat your grandmother. And never, ever take the bait that they will throw our way. That doesn't mean compromising our beliefs; if one believes in dignity and respect for everyone, it's living them.

[John Hosty]

You say that you are not a liar, but you DO NOT post that the article is an editorial from one man. That is a intentional omission of an inportant fact, and therefore a lie. You say that your aim has never been to attack homosexuality, but day in and out your ass is here isn't it?! You are a liar about this too. You do not come here to learn or to teach, you come here to inflict pain and to enjoy the pain of others. You disgust me.

[Paul Jamieson]

How about another "progressive" blog John

From www.othermag.org

Know Thy Neighbor Or Surveillance Society? [General] — claire @ 2:05 pm
Some of you may have seen this by now: a group in Massachusetts is publishing online a list of names and addresses of people who sign an anti-same-sex-marriage petition. Link.

The website, KnowThyNeighbor.org, states about this campaign:

In the fall of 2005, extremists will attempt to convince 65,825+ Massachusetts voters to sign a petition that would add anti-family language to our state constitution. Those who sign it will be listed here.
Quite straightforward. Now, there is nothing illegal in this. It’s all open and aboveboard. And furthermore, I have no objection to activists using social pressure as a tactic. That’s the point of boycotts, protests, letters to the editor, and pretty much every other weapon in the arsenal of the political activist. Plus, this seems like it might actually be more effective than most of the small arms lefties carry. So there’s that.

But I’m just not comfortable with the fact that this tactic so obviously employs intimidation. Because it’s clear that this will only work if people are too afraid to be seen by their neighbors online to actually sign the petition. If people didn’t care, or were passionate enough about restricting same sex unions to do it anyway, then this effort would be wasted. What’s having petition signatories available online gonna hurt, if the petition gets delivered with sufficient signatures anyway?

The org itself indirectly acknowledges its intimidation tactic by warning the sites users not to actually, ya know, intimidate people:

KnowThyNeighbor.org hopes to inspire Civil, Legal, and Respectful Discourse on the topic and discourages with its fullest conviction the actions by anyone to harm a person or their property in retribution for exercising their democratic right to sign the petition.
Yeah … right. You know what this reminds me of? The whole argument for permitting the government to use torture to interrogate terrorists. The threat of possible torture has been shown to be very effective in interrogation. Therefore, proponents argue, if you publicly permit torture, you mostly don’t have to use it. But if you really do prohibit torture and everyone knows it, then you’ve lost your most effective, non-torture tactic.

Likewise, this effort only works if the threat of neighborly retribution for “exercising their democratic right to sign the petition” stops people from signing. If they know that those lefties are too pc pussified to attack, then the website has failed. Like with torturing terrorists, KnowThyNeighbor.org operates in the shadowy zone between threat and fulfillment.

Furthermore, if we move out of the shadowy zone, KnowThyNeighbor can’t be expected to take responsibility for the actions taken by those who read the website and actually exact retribution. But the cause benefits from the added intimidation factor that would create.

I don’t like it. I know, I know … but I don’t like it