Springfield Fraud Victims Speak Out

"He lied right to our faces about what it was about... and if I new what it was about there is no way I would have signed it." - fraud victim Emily Nichols

Springfield's Channell 22 News aired its I-Team investigation into petition fraud on Monday, January 10.  Mineau says there will need to be tens of thousands of fraud allegations before he will admit there is a problem and now is raising his own allegations that there may have been professional "plants" who intentionally signed the petition so they could challenge later.

Aaron Toleos, Director

Comments

[Paul Jamieson]

Hey Kevcor and Callie,

Was that a threat? I beg Aaron to decide whether or not its cool to threaten people with violence on this blog.

[Joe S]

Of course Paul...its a "THREAT"...PLEASE...always the "Victim" Paul aren't you?....or as EVERYONE HERE CALLS YOU...."Pathetic Paul"...

By the way...you forgot that even though Callie and Kev had the flamable material...it was I that had the lighter! BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

Get off the cross Paul...someone needs the wood...or better yet stay there...maybe we will just burn it on your lawn!!! ;-)...AAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

And I still say...GET A LIFE!

[Stanley Pryhoda]

chirp ......chirp.......chirp

[kevcor]

"Was that a threat? I beg Aaron to decide whether or not its cool to threaten people with violence on this blog." - paul

Hey closet boy......stop being such a drama queen

[Stanley Pryhoda]

Dear Friends,

The day when we will be able to post permanent 10 Commandments monuments on government property is coming soon.

Even though that day has not come yet, we can still post the 10 commandments on every bulletin board and telephone pole around.

What is important is the 10 commandments are easy for everyone, especially children, to read and understand.

The consequences for breaking the 10 commandments must also be made clear. We recommend printing out the following and posting it everywhere you can:

These are the 10 Commandments, the moral and legal foundation of society.

These rules are very simple and there is no weaseling out of them. God has no court of appeals. There is no early release for good behavior.

If you break any of these rules, the punishment is stated in Leviticus 26:29 "ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." and Deuteronomy 28:53 "thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters". Punishment is also stated clearly in Exodus 31:15 and Numbers 16:32-36 - execution.

"I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt..."

(Well, okay, not you, but your great-great-great ancestors thousands of years ago. If you happen to be Jewish.)

1. "You shall have no other gods besides Me..."

In Plain English: All non-Judeo-Christians must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

Note that Jews believe this means Christians also must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed. Choose carefully!

2. "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

Anyone with a crucifix, painting, statue or stained glass window portraying Jesus, God, Saints, Angels, etc. should be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

Any child who scribbled a picture of God or heaven or Grandma in heaven must be executed. (Note: The Orthodox say you can worship an icon but the Amish say even photography counts. Choose carefully. If you choose wrong, you will be force to eat your own children and then executed.)

The Sistine Chapel and other "graven images" must be destroyed.

3. "Do not take the Lord's name in vain"

Anyone who ever said "Oh my God" or "Jesus!" or "thank God" in conversation or because they hit their thumb with a hammer, must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

4. "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"

Anyone who works on Sunday, even police officers, medics, soldiers, even if it's just collecting twigs to put in a fireplace, must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

Moslems, whose Sabbath is on Friday, must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

Jews, whose Saddath is on Saturday, must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

5. "Honor your father and your mother..."

Obey your parents, even if they are abusing you, molesting you etc. You must obey them even if their orders contradict one another.

You must obey them even if you are 70 years old and they are suffering from dementia or just plain insanity. Those who fail to obey must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

6. "You shall not kill"

There are two ways to interpret this. There is the "Thou shalt not kill period end of sentence" which means don't kill, not even terrorists who are about to kill you, not even flies and mosquitoes and viruses.

As for the executioner who kills all these killers, he has to kill himself. There is also the Liebral interpretation, as Jews do, which says it's "do not murder".

Whatever it is, choose carefully, because killers are punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

7. "You shall not have sexual relations with another man's wife."

Note that according to Jesus adultery also means getting divorced or "checking out" a woman you walk past on the street, or checking out a woman on TV.

Therefore: if the divorced and anyone who has "checked out" anyone must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

8. "you shall not steal" Anyone who has ever not put enough change into a parking meter or worse must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

9. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" Every politician and lawyer must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

10. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..." Anyone who has ever said or even thought "I wish I had that...." must be punished by being forced to eat their own children, and then executed.

This post has been edited by Dr. Laurie Schwarzkopf, PHD: Sep 9 2005, 02:59 AM

Replies(1 - 3)
Dr. Laurie Schwarzkopf, PHD Sep 9 2005, 02:59 AM Post #2

Group: True Christian™
Posts: 134
Joined: 19-March 05
Member No.: 2,151

By the way, if any of you wonder if this is necessary, here is a Swift Report article that should make you understand:

June 28, 2005

Few Americans Familiar with More than Four of Ten Commandments

While the Ten Commandments are increasingly popular in both text and tablet form, a new poll has found that few Americans are familiar with more than four of them. The Biblical bans on murder, theft, and adultery ranked highest among adults surveyed, while only a handful were familiar with Commandments prohibiting graven images and false witness.

By Deanna Swift

WASHINGTON, DC—On the heels of a Supreme Court ruling that bars public buildings from erecting massive tributes to the stone tablets handed down to Moses by God, a new poll has found that few Americans are familiar with more than four of the Ten Commandments.

That finding comes at a time when support for the Ten Commandments is at an all time high, with an estimated 32% of Americans regularly calling into talk radio shows, writing letters to the editor or hectoring family and friends about the importance of the Ten Commandments—despite not knowing what most of them are.

Among most recognizable... murder, theft and coveting servants, wives and donkeys.

Written in stone

The new poll, based on 2,130 telephone interviews conducted over the weekend, found that fewer than 10% of Americans were able to define more than four of the Commandments. Among the most recognizable of the Biblical bans were the prohibitions against murder, theft and adultery, and coveting the wives, male servants, oxen or donkeys of a neighbor.

While the First, Second, and Third Commandments come in tops on the list of the religious and moral imperatives, few Americans were able to state with any certainty what those Commandments actually say. The stone tablet topper reads that "I am the Lord, thy God." Number three weighs in with a prohibition against "graven images."

America voted and the Commandment is:

Surveyors for Polltronics Inc., the firm that conducted the poll, also collected information on what Americans believed the Ten Commandments to be. According to the results of the survey, 23% of Americans believe that the Second Commandment, a righteous reminder not to make graven images, is actually the right to bear arms. Thirty-one percent said that the Ninth Commandment, the ban on bearing false witness, was a prohibition against removing Ten Commandments statues from public buildings.

[Stanley Pryhoda]

ROFL-

LET THE JUSTICES DO JUSTICE !!!!
MARSHALL - THE FORCES OF JUSTICE

[BOBS1966]

Man, the rhetoric on this blog has become very juvenile. Is there any use trying to discuss anything here? Well, maybe I will try.
Although I do not believe the purpose of KTN is to intimidate, I can see how it would be intimidating to some. I can also see some people abusing the list, and trying to intimidate, but I don't see this being widespread. Most would never use the list in this way.
I also do not believe gay marriage proponents signing the petition just to say there was fraud. That sounds just plain silly to suggest.
I also find it silly to think Kris Mineau would pay people to attack SSM on this blog. I'm sure there are enough people to do this for free, and need no coaxing from anyone to do so. Admittedly, I can see why someone would come to that conclusion. It does seem, reading through the posts, one opponent leaves and another starts. If Kris Mineau is behind it, that is very sad.
Also, I don't think it was a good idea for MassEquality to have automated phone messages asking if there was fraud. I'm very sure there was fraud involved in collecting some of the signatures, but it will in no way effect the standing of the petition. I think the bulk of the signatures were gathered at churches. Whether or not some were intimidated by their church to sign is another story.
Let's face it, there will always be a percentage of the population against SSM, and against gay rights in general. It's a sad but true fact.
Energy needs to be focused on those we can have an open dialog with. Some of them may be reading this blog, and we should stay focused, and not alienate them.

[Callie Wise]

Bobs, sometimes you just have to lighten up and laugh a little! Jeez!

I have to give it to you, you rode the middle of the road right down to the end. One thing you are right about, there will always be a percentage of people against us. Haters always need someone to hate; otherwise, their reason for existance is gone. Heck, even the KKK is still kickin' and screamin'!

A haters heart never changes, only his target does.

[Stanley Pryhoda]

Bobs 1966 - I have been blogging here since inception.

Please remember that Aaron, one of the founders is straight and married, and Tom, the other is gay and married.

Initially, we had some neighbors who came here and spoke about their concerns and their lack of information about our lives.

Then, whom we call the Mineau Minions came, in such a frequency, and on such a schedule, that the stalking horse theory was definitely in play. These individuals were here to provoke and incite and to dissemble their talking points.

I am writing this to you because I believe you are the 40 year old gay married guy living in MA who has blogged here before.

I have decided to post some serious and yes, comedic relief, as we proceed to the future.

The next steps may be simultaneous. Galvin will or has sent the certification to the MA General Court (legislature) while oral arguments at the SJC on the GLAD lawsuit is scheduled for May.

I truly believe that the Judiciary will reaffirm Goodridge and recognize this end run around the Constitution is not lawful.

I am not prepared to look to another ConCon if this is settled. If so, we will look at the necessary activism at that time.

After all, it is our lives and our freedoms that are on the line.

[BOBS1966]

Well, I laugh a lot actually, thanks. Many of the posts have made me laugh. And believe me, I am not riding down the middle. I just think it's important to be realistic. I like to see things from both sides, at least when possible. I, however, will never find a middle ground when it comes to SSM. People like Paul Jamieson can rationalize till they are blue in the face. Equal rights are supposed to be guaranteed by the constitution, aren't they?

[Callie Wise]

Not trying to pick a fight with you, Bobs. Sometimes the endless back and forth on here with the vitrolic dominionists gets old and letting off some steam feels good, you know?

[mark and nigel]

Stanley - thank you for the comedic relief that you gave us today.

When you are inundated with the same folks with the same spin and the same solution.

Let us remember, Bob et al...THE MASSACHUSETTS PETITION IS NIHILISTIC. IT SAYS NO MARRIAGE, NO CIVIL UNION SECOND CLASS RIGHTS, NO REGISTERED DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIPS, NOTHING IN TERMS OF BENEFITS, TAX BENEFITS, ETC..THAT MIMIC MARRIAGE ONLY FOR HETEROSEXUALS.

That is the ONLY reality in MA by these bigots who absolutely hate US and our families. Make no mistake. They want us to have the legal status of legal strangers.

Thank you, Stanley, for sharing with us today. I read each and every one of your posts. I especially appreciated the fact that the Catholic/Fundamentalist alliance is one that makes " strange political bedfellows" the chief understatement of the day.

[mark and nigel]

Brentwood man arrested, accused of raping, sexually abusing 2 sons

Incidents allegedly took place in 5-year period

By MITCHELL KLINE
Staff Writer

BRENTWOOD — A Brentwood man was arrested yesterday on charges of raping and sexually abusing two of his children over the course of five years.

The 50-year-old man is being held at the Williamson County Jail in lieu of posting $500,000 bail. A court date had not been set yesterday.

The two children, boys ages 12 and 16, have been removed from the home, according to police.

The Tennessean does not identify victims of rape without their consent.

Because the children have the same last name as the suspect, the newspaper is not identifying the defendant.

The case, which was investigated by Brentwood Detective David O'Neil, was presented to a Williamson County grand jury on Monday.

The grand jury returned a 10-count indictment, charging the defendant with eight counts of rape of a child, one count of rape and one could of aggravated sexual battery, District Attorney General Ron Davis said.

The charges stem from incidents that allegedly occurred between September 2000 and December 2005.

O'Neil said the defendant, who is married, has four other children — two of whom are adults.

"At this point we have no reason to believe there are any other victims," O'Neil said.

Allegations of rape and abuse were brought forth by one of the victims, police said.

On a mid-December day, a Brentwood patrol officer was called to the family's home to help resolve a domestic issue, O'Neil said. One of the boys told the officer that he and his brother had been abused.

Attempts to reach the defendant's attorney were not successful. A male who answered the phone at the defendant's Brentwood home hung up on a reporter after asking, "What is this regarding?"

The suspect is involved in the Christian book-publishing industry, according to police and numerous Web sites.

Marita Littauer, president of CLASServices, a New Mexico-based company which coordinates Christian writers conferences, said she knew the defendant on a "professional level."

"I seriously question the charges," Littauer said. "I cannot believe they are accurate."

Davis and O'Neil said few details would be released about the case because they do not want to identify the victims. •

[Callie Wise]

Mark & Nigel,

You beat me to this post. This is my area of the country...Nashville. Home of LifeWay Christian Bookstores and the Southern Baptist Convention (and the first two Justice Sundays too). Boy, don't I feel special!

I wonder if this sicko works for LifeWay. It's the biggest Christian publishing company in the area.

I keep saying it, but those who doth protest too much are the ones to be watched the most.

[mark and nigel]

Several years ago, Nigel read short stories by Anne Proulx. We were vacationing in Malaga, Spain with friends who are now legally married in their nation.

Our friends are about four or five years older than we. They have been together for thirty-six years, and "newly-married".

We discussed the story at that time. We had all come to an understanding of our orientation in college, and all of us had empathy for our country rural "cousins" who did not have the culture, information or awareness that urban centers and university campuses produced.

In our lives together, Nigel and I have met many Jack and Ennis characters. They were slightly older than we. They had the ability to hide their lives and feelings behind a heterosexual marriage.

At that time, nothing societally or psychologically was supportive. Society still criminalized it, arbitrarily convicting one and not another. The American Psychological Association and other medical and sociological groups, all identified us as dysfunctional and emotionally ill.

The story of Brokeback Mountain, or the story of Spanish rural peasants, or anyone in western Canada, or the Wyoming where they murdered a young man only recently, has resonance to those who lived during those decades surely. It should also inform the young gay man or woman today.

The graphic imagery of murder - with the seeming complicity of his wife's family, tells the story of a life not lived.

Ennis was scarred at age nine by a father who murdered a neighbor in a quiet gay relationship - especially with the castration element prominent in the story.

A segue into our struggle in MA. We must prevail in order to provide today's Ennis and Jack with options the original characters in a short story did not have.

[Paul Jamieson]

I am in no way shape or form a "minion" of anyone.

I am not paid by anyone

I am married with children

I am a follower of Christ

I am a sinner

I am a singer

I am a registered Republican

I am a neighbor of Aaron Toleos

I am a believer in free speech

I am a firm believer in civil rights

I am an American

[Bob]

So you are a firm believer in civil rights, do you believe white people should vote for black's rights?

Logically, if you don't, then straight people should not vote for gay people's marriage rights.

Let us (gays only) vote what's best for us. BUG OFF!

[Bob]

Paul, I feel sorry for your wife and children. They need you. We don't need you here.

[Christopher Robert]

Paul, I do not know if I should take offense at what you said to me. Most people who have called me Christopher Robin have been my closest friends. If you want to get to know me its fine, but I warn you, I enjoy open intellectual conversation and debate. I am probably not at all what you would expect. But I also say that to meet me you would have to take an IQ test first. The question is would you rank high enough?

[Paul Jamieson]

Christopher,

My IQ is high enough to know that if some stranger standing in front of a store asks me to sign a petition, I would probably think he was :

a. A drunk
b. A college student
c. A theocratic, dominionist evangelical
or
d. A Mineau minion

and would tell him politely "no thank you"

I would at least READ the stupid thing first!

Bob,

Where have you been, this is not a civil rights issue. Don't you understand the difference? Don't you know the majority of minorities want no part of this association.

I will re-post the Boston Clergy's response again for your benefit.

[Paul Jamieson]

The three major associations of Greater Boston's black clergy, exercising their considerable influence within the minority community and asserting moral authority on civil rights matters, have shaken up the debate over same-sex marriage with their insistence that the quest by gays and lesbians for marriage licenses is not a civil rights issue.

The Black Ministerial Alliance, the Boston Ten Point Coalition, and the Cambridge Black Pastors Conference issued a joint statement this weekend opposing gay marriage.

In response, gay and lesbian African-Americans are hastily pulling together an organization they say will seek to end their invisibility within the black church.

But the region's black pastors, some long associated with liberal political causes, say they are proud to be speaking out on an issue they consider to be hugely important. Several said that gay marriage would contribute to the further erosion of traditional family structure in the black community.

"As black preachers, we are progressive in our social consciousness, and in our political ideology as an oppressed people we will often be against the status quo, but our first call is to hear the voice of God in our Scriptures, and where an issue clearly contradicts our understanding of Scripture, we have to apply that understanding," said the Rev. Gregory G. Groover Sr., pastor of Charles Street African Methodist Episcopal Church in Boston.

African-American advocates of gay marriage were horrified by the pastors' statement, issued on the weekend before the state constitutional convention at which lawmakers were expected to debate a constitutional amendment to preserve marriage as a heterosexual institution.

"Martin Luther King [Jr.] is rolling over in his grave at a statement like this," said state Representative Byron Rushing, a Boston Democrat and an active Episcopal layman. "They are not acknowledging the responsibility that any people have who have been able to struggle and gain civil rights, which is that you have to then support others who are seeking civil rights."

A handful of leading black clergy in Boston are prominent supporters of gay marriage, but all work in historically white denominations. They include the Rev. William G. Sinkford, president of the Unitarian Universalist Association; the Rev. Peter J. Gomes, the American Baptist minister who is minister of Harvard University's Memorial Church; and Bishop Gayle E. Harris, a suffragan bishop in the Episcopal diocese of Massachusetts.

But within historically black churches, where most black Protestants worship, there appears to be a near consensus that marriage should be defined as the union of a man and a woman. Among those who have voiced their opposition are the Rev. Ray A. Hammond, pastor of Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Jamaica Plain, the Rev. Eugene F. Rivers III, pastor of the Azusa Christian Community, and the Rev. Jeffrey L. Brown, pastor of Union Baptist Church in Cambridge.

"The decision was not very difficult, because our faith forces us to recognize something that is biblical and that history has affirmed," said the Rev. Wesley A. Roberts, president of the Black Ministerial Alliance, which represents about 80 churches with 20,000 to 30,000 members.

Bishop Gilbert A. Thompson Sr., who as pastor of New Covenant Christian Church in Mattapan heads the largest Protestant congregation in Massachusetts, said black ministers have many reasons for speaking out against gay marriage.

"We're weighing in on this because we're concerned with the epidemic rate of fatherlessness in America and in our community, and we don't think gay marriage helps that cause," he said.

Thompson said he believes that homosexuality is a choice and that "to say there is such a thing as a gay Christian is saying there's an honest thief," because gay people can choose not to act on their homosexual impulses.

"I've read that [former presidential candidate] Carol Moseley Braun didn't see any difference between same-sex marriage and interracial marriage, but we believe the difference is enormous," Thompson said. "Today, we look back with scorn at those who twisted the law to make marriage serve a racist agenda, and I believe our descendants will look back the same way at us if we yield to the same kind of pressure a radical sexual agenda is placing on us today. Just as it's distorting the equation of marriage if you press race into it, it's also distorting if you subtract gender."

The black ministers' statement was welcomed by other opponents of gay marriage, who say it inoculates them from accusations that they were opposed to civil rights.

"The Black Ministerial Alliance is eminently qualified to speak to this particular issue and to clearly state that it is not a civil right issue," said the Rev. David M. Midwood, the president of Vision New England, an umbrella organization of evangelical Protestant churches.

Black gays and lesbians, who have been increasingly concerned since the Black Ministerial Alliance joined the statewide Coalition for Marriage, are starting to speak up.

"Their terminology and reasoning is similar to that of segregationists and racists who have worked hard to keep blacks from attaining full citizenship," said Jacquie Bishop, 39, of Boston.

Pamela K. Johnson, 40, of Boston, who worships at the predominantly African-American Union United Methodist Church in the South End, called the statement "hurtful."

"The idea that gay people are somehow on the list of major concerns eroding the black family is ridiculous," Johnson said. "The real issues impacting our community impact us all, gay and straight."

And Judah-Abijah Dorrington, 47, of Framingham, who attends the Church of God and Saints of Christ in Boston with her partner of 22 years, said, "The statements being made are exactly the statements that have divided the black community for ages."

Christina Cobb, a 38-year-old financial consultant from Boston who attends Trinity Church, said she is organizing an alliance of black gays and lesbians in response to the ministers' statement.

"My great-grandfather was a black minister in the Methodist Church. I come from a long line of ministers, so this really hits home for me," Cobb said. "When you have the Black Ministerial Alliance speaking against us, and they're the only black faces you're seeing speaking about marriage, we're up against a wall where we finally have to step up and say, `We're not invisible.' "

Scholars say the ministers' statement should come as no surprise. Gays and lesbians rarely play a prominent role in black churches.

"What you're stumbling across is the traditional stance of the African-American church, which is that marriage is sacred and unique to men and women," said the Rev. Imani-Sheila Newsome-Camara, a United Methodist minister who is an assistant professor of theology at Boston University. "Marriage was traditionally undervalued in slave communities, not by slaves, but by owners, so the black religious institutions sought to give African-Americans legitimacy as human beings, and that history has been woven together with the theology that God created man and woman for marriage."

[John Hosty]

Lol, Paul I have to smile when I think of how long I have followed what you have to say and what my mental image of who you are is. Be good or be bad, but at least be consistent.

We can argue until the end of time and we may never agree, but for the benefit of doubt I will say this, I am a better person for having met Ray. Marriage is more important to him than to me, so me being here fighting for what Ray wants so fiercely is a love story. Ray feels the same way about me. We always have. It is uncanny how much it seems we were made for each other. We are both good people and positive contributors to society. Where is the harm in bestowing dignity to our devotion to each other by calling it marriage? I really don't see the problem. I know I don't have all the answers, but this one really escapes my understanding.

[Christopher Robert]

Did I ever sign a petition? Would I ever sign any petition posed to me in front of a grocery store? I believe I am asked to do that often. A planned parenthood is next to the grocery store that I use. I never sign though. Perhaps the residents of MA are as dumb as eggplants and so have no right to vote on the rights of others?

[Paul Jamieson]

John,

I am glad you are happy and a positive contributor to society.

The biggest problem here is whether or not you agree that the people of the Commonwealth should be allowed to vote on the issue.

If you believe that this is a civil rights issue, then you are against the people voting, and I can understand that.

If you believe that it isn't, then the only fair way to settle it is with a vote.

I also have a love story to tell...

My wife and I are committed to each other and I would be nothing without her. We value our marriage and are raising 3 children the best we know how. I have seen people ridiculed and harassed becasue of their conservative beliefs.

I was basically kicked out of church I attended (the church where I converted from Catholicism to Protestantism) when I complained about the minister attacking the President weekly from the pulpit, all through the election and SSM debate.

Before 9/11 and the SSM debate it was a truly diverse church. Then it all got ugly fast. I was there for 7 years, and it was hard on my wife and my kids. But mostly on me, becasue I was only calling for moderation! The minister would have nothing to do with it. He ended up leaving and the church is about to be split in two over SSM. This has happened to over 200 churches within the UCC, and 60 have chosen to leave since the UCC affirmed SSM this summer.

I don't have all the answers either, but, I do know that people have the right to have a say in the matter.

[Christopher Robert]

Paul-
Why do people have a right to vote on this issue, but did not have a right to vote on interracial marriage or other things? To open this door and allow this sort of right to be voted on runs the risk of all similar rights to have the necessity of a vote. There is law written by this method so previous laws can be rewritten to allow for the new rulings and new types of rulings to come into play in older laws.